Not respecting authority - Aspie trait?

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This comes down to power. If you can't learn to identify who has real power to go with their position, the power to lock you up, to get you kicked out, you're in trouble. Like cops, cops are people who have real power, some might argue too much power. So I'd try to preface everything with courtesy words and phrases and never say anything like "You can't make me do that" "Just leave me alone!" or "Stop talking and just listen!". Those phrases don't work on people who actually can stick you in a cell as their solution to the problem and who are trained to expect the worst of people. I do tend to try to be pleasant, it doesn't always quite work if people are being pushy, but people tend to respond better if you do try to control your fight or flight response.

If it's something big like that I will lie. I'll tell people I'm sorry when I'm not. That I won't do it again even if I have no idea what it was I did that offended them so. Thank them for not making a bigger deal out of this even if I think they're totally out of line. Because I'm retreating. It doesn't mean I really accept they are right and I am wrong, it just means I'm retreating from this particular social battlefield because I can't win this fight. No alone and stressed. I won't sign papers though or do anything official until I can get someone I trust there with me and I feel more calm, and I'll tell people that if they try to pressure me. I'll tell them I'm not saying no, I just won't sign unless I have someone I trust with me and tell them that's not an unreasonable thing to ask. But lets be honest, most of us on the spectrum aren't at our best when people are getting angry or scared with us and getting in our face about it. It's bad situations to us, the kind we need to get out of so we can get some perspective on and tackle from an angle we can better deal with (possibly with friendly NT support).

There's stuff you can get into by, as the NTs call it, 'being difficult', that will hurt you so much more than it will them. Just because you are right doesn't mean it's always worth it to be right. This is things I've found out by myself, it's a horrible feeling to let things like that go. Especially when you know you're right and they're wrong and they've been jerks about it. But it's so much easier to fix things in the morning when you're not on the spot being pressured or having people in your private space - and not in a jail cell. There's almost nothing you can fix easier from a jail cell than oh, anywhere else.

I don't have immediate respect for anyone in an authoritative position, but I also don't immediately disrespect them either. I don't think disrespecting authority is an aspie thing.

I remember as a child, I treated everyone the same. I treated teachers the same and my parents and boy did I learn how not to treat them thanks to being told I can't do that. I learned early on there were certain things you couldn't do to your mother you can do to other kids. There were things I could say to other kids but couldn't say to my teacher. I never knew why it was like that and never thought to question it. Now as an adult I understand why you must do it. I know to listen to your boss or you can get fired for it and my job and earning money is sure more important than disrespecting my boss. Finding a job is tough so that last thing I need is no job.

Okay the following people you need to abide to are police officers, your supervisor, your teacher. As a child you need to listen to all three above and to your parents and babysitter and other grown ups except strangers in the streets and you also listen to anyone who is left in charge such as your older sibling.

As a child I didn't listen to babysitters. I don't think I understood they were in charge and I am to do what they say. To me they were just older kids and you only listen to grown ups I was taught.


I do think there are gray areas for this though. Hitler for example. Okay he was wrong but that didn't mean people had to listen to him just because he was the president. If your teacher told you to do something mean to another student, you don't have to listen. If your babysitter told you to do something you aren't allowed to do, you don't have to listen. But I get aspies would have a difficulty in this area because they wouldn't know when they have to listen and when they don't have to so they keep making the wrong choices. They might refuse to do something and they were supposed to listen. I would say I had some difficulty in this area as a child but not a lot. I didn't listen to other kids that's for sure but I did listen to grown ups. So when kids tells me to not do this or that, I didn't listen not even realizing I wasn't supposed to do it or if a teacher send one of her students out to recess to come get me so I can go back to class and finish my work assignment, I didn't listen but right after that I learned when a kid comes out and tells me to go back to class for something, I do it. And when my boss or other supervisor would tell me to tell a worker to call them or come down to the office, I would tell that worker the person wants them to do it so they would know it was under the supervisor's request, not mine. I never went up and told them "Oh you need to call (insert office clerk's name here)" without mentioning the office clerk wants them to call them. If someone tells me our boss wants me to do this or that, I know they have authority over me for that because our boss sent that employer to give me that message for them. But if they went upstairs and told me I need to do this, I would question it. But if they mention my supervisor wants me to do this, I won't question it and I will just do it. If I want to know why, I will ask the boss.

Gosh I hate that too but sometimes we have to decide what is more important, showing that we are right or staying out of trouble. My mom one time got called into work. They said she was on that day but she argued it was her day off and that is what the schedule says. her boss said no the schedule says she is on. My mom figured she must have got it mixed up then and went to work. When she did go to work it turns out she was off that day and the boss was wrong. I remember when mom told me that over the phone, I told her why didn't she show them the schedule and she said she went in because she was afraid she'd get fired and she let it go. She didn't even shove the schedule in her bosses face to show her she was wrong and she is right because she didn't want to get fired. With me I might have had anxiety and be uncomfortable all night long and would have to show the schedule to the boss. I have always hated working on my days off unless I am asked if I want to do it. But it never occurred to me that it can get you fired for refusing to come to work on your day off when they think you are on that day and showing them they are wrong. So I would have to decide what is more important, being right or my job. Bosses have the power to sack you if you don't listen to them but showing them that they were wrong can get you sacked too? I didn't know that.

Last edited by League_Girl on 02 Mar 2011, 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've always questioned authority, I don't just accept rules because that person is in a higher position. In school I often broke rules or at least I questioned them if they seemed pointless, meaningless or just an excuse for a person in authority to throw their weight around. The latter reason mostly applies to parents, especially my mum. A lot of what she tells my siblings to do (she doesn't make me do anything any more, I'm a grown up in the house now and I'm not going to be pressured into following her lead.) is just because she has "authority" over them.
At school I sometimes wore an item of clothing that I shouldn't (there was a rule in highschool prohibiting the wearing of colourful socks, so I wore neon stripy ones HAHA). I sometimes wrote messages or smiley faces on the walls in the toilet cubicles because it was fun and it gave me a buzz to rebel. And a few times I skived off assembly and some lessons with certain friends, me and my best friend once skived off the lesson as protest against my friend's mentors for being patronising to us.
I've always been one for personal freedom, I hate to be restricted by those in power or by pointless rules. I often have dreams where I walk in and out of classrooms or fall asleep in class or run away from going somewhere or something like that with no consequences.
I have an almost childish sense of fairness, if I feel my personal freedom restricted I'll feel compelled to rebel against it and/or have my say on matter and say why a rule or command was fair or not.
The one aspect of (primary, anyway) school I hated with a passion was the authority. In highschool I did mellow a lot and most of my rebellious actions were quite small and behind the scenes (writing on toilet walls and that). In primary school I was just outwardly "rude" and answered back to the teachers and gave my 2-penneth because I felt entitled.

Generally speaking, you wouldn't get fired for that unless: 1) you boss is a real jerk, or 2) you were a real jerk when you pointed out the error.

Personally, I'm one of those who treats everybody the same. I am polite and respectful until I am shown a reason to treat the person differently. I do not treat my "superiors" any differently than anyone else. This inability to brownnose is probably part of the reason that I have never received a promotion at any job I have ever held.

People in positions of authority have to gain my respect, just like anyone else. the problem is, very few do. which leads me to pretty much just ignore them and do things the way I want them done. I think the only reason I've not been fired is because I've always been good at my job, what ever it is, so they can't justify firing me...

plus, I only do things different to the way I'm supposed to if the new way is better, and I get the other people I work with to start doing the new way as well, sooner or later my bosses just give up on telling me how to do things.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a little bit more than just not respecting authority. It has more to do with controlling expressions of anger, which naturally is going to be a problem with many who do not like authority. ODD is probably a lesser variant of conduct disorder, mainly because ODD is often provoked and conduct disorder involves outright defiance and law-breaking behaviors. It appears that ODD is rarely diagnosed in adults, and determining its presence is likely to be somewhat flawed. Many who display it may be reacting to things that have a deep meaning to them and not just being outright defiant. Children who are constantly yelled at by their parents and who then go around yelling and fighting back? Is that ODD? Most of those parents likely present themselves as nice and caring in front of a therapist. If a child is brought up around impulsive parents, then it is likely natural that he / she is going to be seen as oppositional and defiant. I think a lot of this has to do with methods of upbringing.

I have flown quite a bit over the years on commercial planes. At first flying was like going to an upscale restaurant. You dressed up a bit. EVERYONE was so polite. We were all sharing an adventure. It was always Sunday up there above the clouds, and we would press our noses to the cold windows. Smiling stewardess with perky hats were always pushing clinking carts up and down the narrow isle... first drinks, then hot food, then coffee.

Now flying is like reform school for junior high school thugs. You spend hours in lines to take a tiny seat. Rules are to be followed to the letter, and any sudden outburst, hesitation, or harsh word, is liable to quickly draw a uniformed crowd of folks who are willing to throw you to the ground. I doubt if I will ever fly again...I'm too grumpy, and prickly to take them all seriously for the many hours required to actually get anywhere.

Yeah, this is mentioned in the complete guide. I can't remember the specifics.

But I certainly have this. I treat everyone as my equal and have to remember to think of the boss as the boss. But it's like play acting. I don't really believe they have any true authority and I think they have sometimes sensed that I just don't get the nature of our official relationship.

I would say that you have a true gift and the respect of your co-workers.

I knew someone with ODD and he broke things and hit his mother to get his way. He also went to school and would try and do the same thing to the teachers and other students and he always get into trouble there.

Now how many kids do actually try and get their way? How many kids do actually use manipulation and violence to get their way? No none ODD child does this, not even aspies. Even I didn't do this as a kid. No child uses violence to try and get their way and breaking things. This kid has tons of anger issues when it came to authority so he get violent and use manipulation to get his way. He acted like a sadist except he did it for control. But I mostly blame it on the mother because she let him have his way when he was younger so he wouldn't get angry and all it did was taught him control and he was older and stronger and she was afraid of him. And ODD is something that can be outgrown through treatment I've read and tons of kids outgrow it by the time they are eight and twelve but some don't ever get over it and it can lead to Conduct Disorder. Someone from here once suggested to me in PM that's what it sounded like this kid had than ODD.

For me I believe title doesn't earn you respect. Just cause your title says police, doesn't mean you suddenly are given respect. The same thing with the title of elder or parent. It doesn't give you respect. You aren't entitled to respect, you cannot demand more respect based on a title.

I do not give authority respect unless they earned it.

Yes there is a part of mutual respect. But this is all based on a social contract.

It sounds to me like having "problems with authority" is a fairly common thing with AS, I assume because not having a good grasp of the fine points of what is acceptable to say in situations can get a person in real trouble with authority figures. The need to correct people, and the tendency to question, analyze, and idealize that seem to be common in aspies would surely play into this as well.

Personally, I inexplicably have always found it pretty easy to balance genuine respect for authority with my incessant need to question the status quo and ways of doing things. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the main authority figures early in my life (parents, early teachers, doctors, etc.) were thankfully all exceptional and easy to respect. However, I can say that I am disturbed to the core by people in positions of authority who abuse their power over others. This is something that incenses me like little else in life.

i think the root of this "nonrespect to authorities" lies in our analytical and sceptical thinking. We always question things, try to find cases where something might not be the case, try to find a MISSMATCH (to say it in NLP terms), and therefore we are less adherent to authorities. Others think more what things are met, which are MATCHING.

One further note: The same thinking style also results in bad flirting skills. When firstly talking to a woman, and she tells me something about her interests and attitudes and so on, i always think about all the differences, and seem not to tolerate them so well. Other think more about, or at least mention more the things they have in common. Therefore, i tend to not see common things and dont mention them, but talk more about differences or stop talking.

Another thing, which i just learned in this thread is, that the capability for social roleplaying could be also an important point here. AS people usually dont adapt to social situations, they dont change what they say depending on to whom they talk. Other people are better in pretending and playing the social theater. Therefore, it seems very likely that they also have less respect for someone, e.g. a boss, but they play better and dont show it. And then we AS people get also trapped by this play, and think that they really have more respect, but in fact they just pretend to do so.

i mentioned two reasons which might be important here, i wonder which one is more important.

best wishes,
Anton

So Stone Cold Austin is an Aspie then ?