Do you Think HFA and AS are the Same?

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I don't think they're the same. There are some key features that are hard to pinpoint, but apart from the speech delay, they seem less clumsy, tend to stim more and are even less adept at multi-tasking.

I think AS and HFA is basically the same, with some minor differences. Also, I think AS is a form of HFA, as there's no exact or official criteria for HFA, since it's not an official label.

In practice, HFA can mean anything from Classic Autism, AS, or PDD-NOS. I'm dx'd with the latter and my dx mentions I'm HFA.

Even AS in not a homogeneous group. Besides using several sets of 'official' criteria, each diagnostician has it's own stereotype in their mind what 'AS' really is. Some think it's closer to the NVLD-ish stereotype, others think it's closer to the geeky/math wizard/engineer stereotype. No true consensus exists among scientists / therapists / diagnosticians / organizations etc.

So, with regards to its public acceptance and recognition, either the label Asperger's should be continued in use replacing the HFA label, or everyone on the spectrum should be HFA / MFA / LFA. DSM went for the latter.

My first diagnosis was Asperger's, but I have traits that are "supposed" to be found only among classic autistics--even so-called low-functioning classic autistics. If I had never started researching autism in general, I would never have found out that those traits are autistic traits and that other people have learned to deal with them. People with "Asperger's" don't just have Asperger's-type problems to solve. The Asperger's diagnosis is really quite useless; worse than useless, in my case, because if I had assumed I couldn't have any of the traits that Aspies are supposed to be too mild to have, I wouldn't have been able to understand and address them. For example, we're not supposed to have executive dysfunction, we're not supposed to have self-care problems, we're not supposed to lock into mental loops, lose speech, or get so stuck on one thing that we can't switch to another. We're not supposed to use pre-scripted conversations, or follow patterns in speech at the expense of communication. We're not supposed to be so completely flummoxed by transitions that we're unable to cope with a fire drill. But I have all those problems.

When a psychologist goes to treat someone for Asperger's, they often focus almost entirely on the social aspects of it. That's a problem for me because the social aspects of it don't cause me that much distress. I know I'm different, I'm okay with it, and I'm learning how to communicate on my own terms. If I weren't aware of the rest of the spectrum, I might still be calling myself lazy and telling myself to just try harder, instead of realizing that these traits, supposedly restricted to "severely autistic" people, are real; and that I have to understand and work with them in order to pursue my goals.

I often think that the division of the spectrum is doing more harm than good precisely for this reason. People with "mild" diagnoses like Asperger's are presumed never to have any of the problems that the professionals associate with "severe" autism, while people with diagnoses like classic autism are presumed never to have any of the talents and abilities that people with Asperger's are allowed to have. It's a real problem. I hope that merging the spectrum will solve it.

No, any objective view of symptoms & challenges shows there is really no MAJOR difference between them. The only thing I can find is onset is not noticed as early (even that is contested in recent literature!)or no early speech loss. Though it seems that one may be frm lack of it being as pronounced. It just seems Asperger's tends to be on the Milder side initially than what would be called classical Autism. The perpetual disagreements is why DSM V is dropping AS as a seperate disorder. We are all autistic, sorry if some find the "A" word offensive..

Sincerely,
Matthew

Within the AS population, I noticed at least two groups of people who seem to think/feel/sense differently - HFA group and NVLD group. I think that people diagnosed with AS in HFA group are the same as HFA people diagnosed with autism. I think that people diagnosed with AS in NVLD group are quite different from HFA people diagnosed with autism and AS.

One of the differences that I noticed between myself and many people on WP is that many people have and use a lot of social cognition in posts and make many social-emotional interpretations of posts and the social-emotional stuff sometimes gets thick in threads debating topics. Like people can tell and point out who is mocking who and who is putting down who, etc etc etc, and there seems to be a lot of reading between lines to make these interpretations that I would never have thought of myself. Also, I read here many social-emotional interpretations of eberryday situations and news reports, and mostly ones that I would never have come up with myself. But this could be just because I personally don't have enough social cognition to make or understand social-emotional interpretations of anything.

This is a difficult topic.

I think many adults who are diagnosed as AS are actually HFA, but because they can present in such a similar way they can be very hard for a clinician to distinguish.

I have met someone I am sure had HFA (just going to use this particular guy as an example) and he was very different from me.

He lived on his own and held a job, but only ever managed both just barely. He struggled so badly with socialising, to the extend that others would just constantly make him jokes about him whenever he wasn't there. He seemed to have extreme difficultly learning social skills and remembering to use which in a particular situation (at least I could learn and mimic if I studied it), and mostly just wanted to be at home by himself either coding or gaming.

The way he thought was quite different, but he could never learn how to think otherwise. At least I have an ability to switch when I need to if I focus, he was never capable of that. He also physically was much more awkward than I am, to the point that certain physical tasks were impossible for him. He cannot multi task at all. I noticed he used to stim a lot especially in public. His verbal capacity was much more limited than mine, he struggled to express himself verbally even worse than I do (and that's saying something).

When I saw someone try to talk about something emotional with him, he just completely shut down. I find emotional topics difficult, but I do always have an attempt at it.

Overall he is fairly similar to other HFA's I have met. For me at least, there does seem to be a noticeable difference.

Seems to me a bit random whether you get diagnosed HFA or diagnosed AS. Some psychiatrists will diagnose HFA or AS regardless of whether or not there was a speech delay. Others won't diagnose HFA unless there was speech delay.
Are HFA and AS the same? I think they're entwined and essentially the same.

I

I have been thinking about this topic off and on for the last day, since I saw it yesterday. I have not read all the responses, however. This is my experience. I am diagnosed HFA. I had very delayed speech, and other sensory issues, and I don't enjoy direct human interaction. I've always preferred not to socialize with others. However, there are certain mathematical skills that have to do with pattern recognition and data analysis that I'm pretty good at, so I've been lucky that I've been able to be employed in research capacities. I've also been able to attend school after high school despite my diagnosis because of high test scores. I also have been married almost 10 years which I understand is highly unusual. So, in those two ways I think I'm unusual for an HFA--gainful employment and long term relationship. These two things seem more common among those with an Asperger's diagnosis.

Also, when I've been involved in autism support groups in the past (at the recommendation of my doctor), it seems like those with the Asperger's diagnosis want to socialize but just aren't very good at it, while those of us diagnosed with HFA have very little interest in socializing as well as not being good at it.

Yeah, that is true for people who post here. But one of my coping mechanisms is being able to write out feelings, opinions, etc. on paper. I cannot actually do it in any face to face situation. I usually end up confused/being laughed at. Even after five decades!
And that is probably closest to the true nature of ASDs. Those on the spectrum DO communicate, but not in the expected ways.
And maybe NVLDs are not really fully on the spectrum. My best friend has that, and I believe he could be labeled PDD-NOS if anyone was willing to do the leg work.
Funny thing is I had leaned on him for interactions with the opposite sex! <sigh>

Sincerely,
Matthew

I think these labels are hangovers from the earliest days of autism research, before it was understood to be a spectrum disorder.

There was this one kid I went to school with...he was fairly mute; had extreme trouble with things like irony and humor; tried to socialize but never really fit anywhere, and he stimmed with his eyes (blinking). He graduated high school and went to college, but had a very tough time of it. He graduated and got a job with a local grocery store, but never grew past the way he was in school. I know he's had job troubles - likely the result of his troubles with interaction. He appears to suffer from Executive Dysfunction which, I guess, would interfere with his ability to drive and function in a work environment.

I always thought of him as more of a classically Autistic person who was mainstreamed as best as possible. I have always felt a connection to his condition as well. I guess that is why we became friendly with each other...although phone conversations were an exercise in futility Whereas I have trouble keeping a conversation going, he just keeps repeating himself in his own monotone way

Still...

As the criteria stand HFA requires an early language impairment and AS requires no early language problems, so yes they are on paper different. Whether this is a big enough deal to warrant two different distinctly named places on the spectrum is another matter because early language doesn't always indicate where someone will end up in terms of functioning.

i dont know. im "tenikly" dignost with HFA but thats only because i dinent talk till 3, evan throu i FIRMLY remeber not wonting to talk because my system of sound " that i still use today for some reason"worked and there was no need to talk, till my mom brout me to a tharipist, and they would not leave me alone and that angered me so i talked, and i remember thinking about this over the years.
also if you take my symptoms and look at AS and HFA i fit much better into AS.
so to me they seem prity close