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tall-p
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04 Jul 2014, 2:22 pm

Misery wrote:
...wait, what does that have to do with the topic here? If there's a link, I'm not seeing it.

The point is that "choice" is an illusion. "Free will" is an illusion.

The constant blizzard of words in all of our heads is hard to explain to oneself. It is very easy to wander into magical thinking rationalizations.

As mentioned above a couple of times James Randi has been debunking psychic nonsense for more than a half a century. There are many many great videos of him on youtube. If you believe in magic you really should familiarize yourself with James Randi. BTW he has just come out with a new movie that is getting great reviews. It's called "An Honest Liar."


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Misery
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04 Jul 2014, 6:51 pm

tall-p wrote:
Misery wrote:
...wait, what does that have to do with the topic here? If there's a link, I'm not seeing it.

The point is that "choice" is an illusion. "Free will" is an illusion.

The constant blizzard of words in all of our heads is hard to explain to oneself. It is very easy to wander into magical thinking rationalizations.

As mentioned above a couple of times James Randi has been debunking psychic nonsense for more than a half a century. There are many many great videos of him on youtube. If you believe in magic you really should familiarize yourself with James Randi. BTW he has just come out with a new movie that is getting great reviews. It's called "An Honest Liar."


For me it's not a matter of belief or disbelief. Never was. Never CARED. I tend to be kinda simple in that way. It's one thing and one thing only: A lack of the arrogance that for most people tends to give them the idea that because THEY have not encountered something, it not only "doesnt" exist but also "cannot" exist. Which, frankly, is a big pile of derp. Making such an assumption is not something that occurs to me.

To be honest, I find that the arguements on BOTH sides of topics like this are very lacking. Logical flaws (big ones) on BOTH sides, not just one. That neither side can see their own flaws continues to endlessly entertain me.

One way or another, in the end, it's all bloody pointless. Wether or not something exists is not determined by our belief or disbelief in it, though the average person seems to think otherwise. It makes me think of a line from one of the Discworld books, where a major villain of a particular book has died, and Death is standing there watching him start to reincarnate (which isnt what normally happens). The villain says something like "But wait, I dont BELIEVE in reincarnation!", to which Death responds "THAT'S OKAY... REINCARNATION BELIEVES IN YOU ", Death of course always speaking in all-caps as per the usual. The villain then becomes a screaming potato, but that's a whole other part of the story.

As per the usual for me, I've now forgotten where I was going with this, though it likely doesnt matter over much. I'll give that at least this particular thread has been interesting though, and nobody is screaming at each other, so that's good. On other forums I go to, this topic WOULD have devolved into a flamewar. Which, naturally, would stop actually being about the original topic. A fascinating spectacle, that.



Sweetleaf
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04 Jul 2014, 7:17 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
Believing in that stuff isn't a good idea. Not safe.

We tend to misunderstand and literalize things that other people know are metaphoric. We tend to think too much about things. We tend to talk too much and not communicate well, not make ourselves properly understood.

In addition, it's pretty well-known that autism and schizophrenia are related.

If you think having autism sucks, go get yourself diagnosed with schizophrenia. Find out what really foul medication, stigma, and not having anything you say or feel taken seriously is really like.

Nope-- believing in the paranormal/mysticological claptrap/religion in general isn't a good idea. NOT SAFE.


One does not have to discuss their beliefs on such matters with mental health professionals.


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CosmicRuss
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04 Jul 2014, 7:51 pm

I was visiting friends in a different city, suddenly became extremely short of breath sitting in their living room one evening, was agitated and moving about anxiously struggling to breath. I got someone to drive me the short distance to hospital as I knew I needed help.

I was triaged into the resuscitation area and given adrenaline and steroids via lines. Suddenly everyone left me alone to deal with a trauma admission in cardiac arrest, it was my friend's cousin who had fallen from a building and was found lying in the street below. I had met him once before when he was living. :?


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cyberdad
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05 Jul 2014, 12:39 am

Misery wrote:
To be honest, I find that the arguements on BOTH sides of topics like this are very lacking. Logical flaws (big ones) on BOTH sides, not just one. That neither side can see their own flaws continues to endlessly entertain me.

This was exactly my point.

People who "believe" in the paranormal without understanding the evidence are susceptible to being duped by charlatans. I am thinking of those who followed the Heaven's gate cult as a perfect of example of blind belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_G ... ious_group)

On the opposite end of the spectrum are dogmatic scientists or self proclaimed intellectuals who simply run on autopilot when discrediting paranormal claims without actually examining or scrutinizing the data or evidence. A recent example in the news is the yeti or bigfoot. Indigenous peoples had long kept oral records of large hairy humanoid like creatures that has been summarily dismissed by biologists as primitive myth or a modern hoax. Just recently one scientist has discovered that puported Yeti hair obtained from a Tibetan monastery is infact from a ancestor of the modern day Polar bear. This enormous animal was long thought to be extinct. After more than a hundred years of ridicule it turns out there really are monstrous and mysterious animals. What a pity scientists weren't brave enough to search for these creatures earlier!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrodgers ... olar-bear/



Deb1970
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05 Jul 2014, 12:45 am

It has always seemed illogical to me. But my mother has always thought I was physic. There have been hundreds, maybe even thousands of times that I have said something or dreamt something and it came true. For instance, before there are tornadoes close to where I live, I have a dream shortly before it happens of tornadoes.

One time I was driving down a road with my mother and I told her that the next person to win the Iowa Lottery could be someone from the Casey's gas station in the town we were about to drive through. The next lotto drawing the person who bought the winning ticket, bought it at the gas station that I mentioned to my mother. I really hated that one. If only I had been the one to have bought the winning ticket. That one really made me wonder if I truly had some sort of psychic ability.

I had a dream recently that my co worker and I missed a incoming file at work and the next day we were told we missed a file. The list goes on and on. It happens all the time to me. It really bothers me and I wished it would go away. It just does not make sense to me and I do not understand it.

Recently, I talked to my Therapist about it. She said is was most likely coincidences. But after I told her that I had a dream about tornadoes recently and then the following week there were tornadoes close by I think now she may think differently. She asked me in my last session if I had any more tornado dreams and I told her no. She said that, that was good. And since then there have no more tornadoes in my area.

It is so hard to explain. There are so many things that we as humans just do not understand about our brains and bodies. Humans in general are illogical in many ways. Is there a gene present in individual's that are more apt to for see things then others?


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