stand up against: hitler didn't have asperger

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Whatsherhame
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14 May 2011, 9:00 am

Why feel the need to excuse such horrors with a disorder of some kind? Evil is evil, sometimes it cannot be explained. Furthermore there is a potential for evil in everyone, not just those with certain personality disorders, or even people with autism. Diagnosing somebody posthumously like this just reeks to me of trying to make that person an 'other', something a little less than human. That way everyone can sleep soundly without having to confront the reality that anyone is capable of great evil and twisted horrors, given the opportunity. You don't have to be different mentally or neurologically, the slippery slope is already there.

...And no, I don't think hitler was autistic. :)



abyssquick
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14 May 2011, 9:39 am

Bethie wrote:
Then the entire country had antisocial personality disorder, he being only the most visible among them.


Country and culture are an important factor. I see that so much has been argued retrospectively, as an apparent influencing factor -- I think every historical event arises from a unique cultural context - religious, social, economic, and so on. Hitler has become the locus classicus of establishment-driven debasement of culture (imprudently so, on the internet). Hitler is famous and feared for diverting mass frustrations into hatred, into an aire of untouchable power, for flooding the airwaves with lies, miseducation, and attendant rationalizations... things that were at once ignorant, hateful, and popular. The vulgarization of an entire culture. There are many cultural aspects - deep religious roots also- Christian thinking, the age-old religious notions of that savage "other," non-Christian out in spiritual wilderness, mixed with the religion's central notions of cleansing, purity, and purging... This religious culture's influence which allowed the event into fruition as a consequence. It is yet only a factor. One cannot abstract Hitler, or the culture from the long history of Europe itself, by saying something like "Hitler was atheist" or "Hitler was Christian" or "Hitler had NPD" I always find arguments like this to be abstracted scapegoats which a person uses to distance themselves / disparage others, because to associate with Hitler is apparently to dehumanize, relegate to a realm of an automatic, authoritarian monstrosity. --- (In order to learn the past (not to say we ever do), the question becomes: at what point is a modern culture similar on a significant level? Not just topical comparisons as we are prone to invoke, but inwardly, mechanically similar?... )



NateSean
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14 May 2011, 10:45 am

As spokespeople for the Autism/Asperger's movement goes I'd be perfectly happy kicking old Adolph off that list.



Magnus_Rex
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14 May 2011, 12:18 pm

Whatever. He's deader than disco.

Also, argumentum ad Hitlerum.



Sweetleaf
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14 May 2011, 1:20 pm

well I doubt Hitler had aspergers.....but can't say for sure because he is dead and he was not tested for any mental problems or whatever during his life so there is no way for anyone to say for sure whether or not Hitler had any mental issues and if he did what they where.


However if evidence did point to hitler having aspergers(hypothetically).....should it be denied because Hitler was not a very good person? I mean we can't just claim no one who's done anything horrible could possibly have aspergers or autism and then just pin it on only people with anti-social personality disorder or whatever else...I am sure those people have feelings to and don't appreciate everyone assuming anyone who becomes a murderer has to have a disorder simular to that.



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14 May 2011, 3:56 pm

Jonsi wrote:
Who cares? He's dead now.



NateSean
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15 May 2011, 6:49 am

Post mortem diagnosis has been all the rage since the diagnosis went popular. I just wish people could stick with the more flattering PMD's like Einstein and Emily Dickens.



Michael28
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15 May 2011, 6:56 am

Bethie wrote:
Perhaps it makes people too uncomfortable to accept that someone can torture, kill, and oppress and still be perfectly sane clinically.


Nailed it.


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JurgenW
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15 May 2011, 8:25 am

(My first post on Wrongplanet, and of course I chose a silly topic. :oops: )

naturalplastic wrote:
The OP is simply pointing out the obvious: that Hitler had no obvious Aspergian traits, and that he had an abundance of NPD traits, so it is absurd to suggest that he was the former while at the same time ignoring the possiblity that he was the latter.

The early Hitler did have some characteristics that could be regarded as Aspergian, if I understand this correctly:
He did not have friends.
He did not have women. (Obviously he visited some prostitute that gave him syphilis, but that is not the same as a relationship.)
He refused to eat some types of food.
He did not have a job.
(His appearance was rather shabby, being dirty and unkempt and malnourished and wearing rags, but I am not sure about this point.)

Later, during world war one, he had an obsession with a particular topic (Germany, in a political sense).



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15 May 2011, 9:01 am

^^ But they're so generalised and could apply to anyone at all, including NTs.

(and welcome to WP :) )


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cyberdad
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16 May 2011, 1:30 am

Double post :?



Last edited by cyberdad on 16 May 2011, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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16 May 2011, 1:30 am

Why is everyone too lazy to use google?

One peer reviewed psychiatric assessment (post-historic) of Adolph Hitler identifies
Schizophrenia
Personality disorders - Antisocial, Narcissistic, Paranoid, and Sadistic
http://www.uccs.edu/~faculty/fcoolidg/H ... nproof.pdf
No mention of Aspergers.



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16 May 2011, 6:12 am

^^ Interesting read, and a good catch!


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Zexion
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16 May 2011, 8:49 am

Quote:
Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger.




As debated as Hitler's physical medical issues may be, his mental health is a minefield of theories and speculation. This topic is very controversial, as many believe that if a psychological cause can be found for Hitler's behavior, there would be more reasoning behind his actions.

Waite, who authored an extensive psychohistory of Hitler, concluded that he suffered from borderline personality disorder, which manifested its symptoms in numerous ways and would imply Hitler was in full control of himself and his actions. Others have proposed Hitler may have been schizophrenic, based on claims that he was hallucinating and delusional during his last year of life. Many people believe that Hitler had a mental disorder and was not schizophrenic nor bipolar, but rather met the criteria for both disorders, and was therefore most likely a schizoaffective. If true, this might be explained by a series of brief reactive psychoses in a narcissistic personality which could not withstand being confronted with reality (in this case, that he was not the "superman" or "savior of Germany" he envisioned himself to be, as his plans and apparent early achievements collapsed about him). In addition, his regular methamphetamine use and possible sleep deprivation in the last period of his life must be factored into any speculation as to the cause of his possible psychotic symptoms, as these two activities are known to trigger psychotic reactions in some individuals. However, Hitler never visited a psychiatrist, and under current methodology, any such diagnosis is speculation.

Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger. As evidence of possible Asperger's, Fitzgerald cites Hitler's poor sleep patterns, food fads, dislike of physical contact, inability to forge genuine friendships, and an emptiness in his human relations. His conversations in the Men’s Home in Vienna were really harangues and invited no reciprocity, for which he seemingly lacked capacity. In Munich, Hitler was distant, self-contained, withdrawn and without friends. His comrades noted that he had no humanitarian feelings, that he was single-minded and inflexible. He was obsessive and rarely made good or interesting company, except in the eyes of those who shared his obsessions or those in awe of, or dependent on him.

As far as hobbies or pastimes were concerned, Hitler spent a great deal of time examining architectural plans with Albert Speer, an activity that remained a major focus of his life throughout. His other major interest was in the music of Richard Wagner. His greatest interest, clearly, was in control of and power over people.

Fitzgerald further states that Hitler was an ideologue with unshakable convictions, and had a bed compulsion, which demands that the bed be made in a particular way with the quilt folded according to a prescribed pattern, and that a man must make the bed before he could go to sleep. He did not use language for the purpose of interaction with others, but only for the purpose of dominating others. He endlessly engaged in long-winded and pedantic speeches, with "illogical arguments full of crude comparisons and cheap allusions." He was unable to carry on a normal conversation or discussion with people. Even if only one other person was present, he had to do all the talking. His manner of speech soon lost any conversational qualities it might have had and took on all the characteristics of a lecture that easily developed into a tirade. He simply forgot his companions and behaved as though he were addressing a multitude, repeating the same stories over and over again in exactly the same form, almost as though he had memorised them. After the First World War, "his awkward mannerisms" were noted. At that time, he wore his gangster hat and trenchcoat over his dinner jacket, toting a pistol and carrying as usual his dog whip, he cut a bizarre figure in the salons of Munich’s upper-crust. But his very eccentricity of dress and exaggerated mannerism saw him lionized by condescending hosts and fellow guests. In his early days, he wore the Bavarian costume. His clothes were not clean; with his mouth full of brown, rotted teeth and his long fingernails, he presented a rather grotesque figure. His gait was a very lady-like walk; dainty little steps. Every few steps he ****** his right shoulder nervously, his left leg snapping up as he did so. He also had a tic in his face that caused the corner of his lips to curl upwards. People found his look "staring and dead."

Fitzgerald claims, therefore, that Adolf Hitler met the criteria for autistic psychopathy described by Hans Asperger, and was not schizophrenic.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 205AAHDPOI

Don't know where the person who posted that answer found that text, but I still doubt Hitler had Asperger's.



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16 May 2011, 8:59 am

I think what cyberdad linked to is somewhat more informative than these rather vague musings, TBH.


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Braemar
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16 Mar 2012, 4:08 am

This is quite an interesting topic, but I agree to some of you that people want to give Hitler a "mental disorder" to partly justify his behaviour.

But I think it is quite easy to say, Hitler had a difficult youth, and was poor at everything but the languages and history at school. I have a disharmonic intelligence profile, which means my verbal intelligence (left-hemisphere) is much more developed , than my right hemisphere (performance) this means I am a great speaker, and philosophy and history are my favorite subjects. But when it's about the world, people with this "strange" intelligence profile, might not connect things in the world with eachother, which makes they have a strange view of the world. I am also quite shy in public, and my social qualities are quite good, except when talking informal to people I don't know in big spaces with many people. I think Hitler might have had the same, it doesn't make you mad, and people with this intelligence profile seem to be very intelligent when you speak with them, but it can make you think wrongly about the world.

Please excuse me for my poor knowledge of the English language, I'm fourteen and I'm Dutch, not American.