Do you think AS is really autism?

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I think that until the causes of both Autisim and Asperger's are discovered it is just speculation if asperger's belongs on the spectrum or not.
My opinion is that the causes are going to be similar if not the same .

what i just dont understand is why its so rare for someone with normal intelligance, to hardly ever get diagnosed with autism. thats why i don't think As fits in at all with autism, because don't you think that it would still be autism even if someone had normal intelligance? does anyone understand what im saying? how can it suddenly be a "mild autism" once someones iq is normal. i just don't get it, to me if it is it is. it shouldn't change like that.

Traditional IQ tests are really not very accurate especially for people with autism along with other things like learning disabilities. It is a myth now, but because people with autism often could not respond to IQ tests many were considered to be ret*d. For instance - my son (HFA)is very smart but has language difficulties with both expressive and receptive language. When he was given one speech test he simply stopped responding so every answer that he did not respond to was counted against his scrore. So, the speech therapist said he was close in range to the severely impaired in speech simply because he did not answer. Not because he did not know the answers but because he simply decided he was not interested in participating in the test anymore. So because he withdrew from the interaction it reflected in his score of his language abilities. My son actually is very smart and loves to read science books and one of his interests is the elements and the chemical names for things. It is not a matter of intelligence but one of communication and sensory overloads.

Also - a study was done that showed that professionals were more inclined to disregard the diagnositc criteria in favor of Aspergers for higher functioning kids because of the attitude surrounding autism. So even if a child had language delays as a child they would still classify them as Aspergers because it sounds less intimidating. And I agree with you that there may be some subtle differences between HFA and AS but I think the two are closely related. That is why often if a child overcomes their language difficulties they will consider them to move up the spectrum. Which is really innacurate because people with autism can be very intelligent - it isn't exclusive to those with Aspergers. Just like PDD-NOS is not milder than autism or Aspergers like many think it is - it just means that the peson did not fit neatly into either diagnostic criteria. So someone can have significant issues and be labeled PDD-NOS. It is the perception of those labels though that influences people's thinking.

My son had the same issues when he was originally tested. He didn't have functional speech so when they "tested" him, they labelled him severely autistic. Though, even being nonverbal, he still could make some needs met and made eye contact and didn't do any visible stimming.
At that time, in 2002, the literature read that 75 % of all autistics were "ret*d".
This was in Indiana, and when I questioned the severity issue, they dismissed it as a temporary label and it would help me get better services. Well, in Indiana where they had one size fits most type services yes. In California, it placed him in the wrong setting where he regressed.

Even though he is now considered "in range" for his speech development (for his age), he will always have issues with the verbal world. My husband is a brilliant speaker but it's very difficult for him too. He thinks in pictures as I believe my son does. Picture schedules will always work better and I don't believe using pictures and cartoons will hinder him at all.

For those who are debating an either/or, AS vs. NLD, it's not necessarily like that.

Approximately 40-60% of Aspies have comorbid NLD as well. One does not discount the other. In addition, AS is heritable, NLD doesn't seem to be but is more likely due to brain damage such as from obstetric complications which are very common in the Autistic Spectrum. It's synonymously called "White Matter Syndrome".

NLD seems to hit males and females equally. ASDs do not, with at least a slight lean towards males.

So when they're studying NLD and seeing many similarities, the question is: Are they studying NLD alone or is there AS in there as well? Because if AS is there, this would skew the results and make NLD appear more like AS because AS is also there. 40-60% of the Aspie population is probably a fair portion of the NLD population as well. So who are they studying? Are they weeding out the Aspie NLDers?

End result: You can have BOTH Aspergers and Nonverbal Learning Disorder.

Yes AS is apart of the Autism tree.

Whether AS is on the spectrum...it's a good question.

There's been increasing awareness about Autistism Spectrum Disorders, partly from professionals expanding the boundaries of what it means to be "autistic".

Personally, I see Asperger's as part of the spectrum, but the people diagnosed with the disorder are generally able to cope in the world independently better than people with the "classic" autism. At its core, Asperger's and classical autism share similiar characteristics. There's social impairment [probably the most major aspect linking the two] and intense preoccupation with certain subjects, for starters. Then there's the preference for routine and stimming.

I think it's a fallacy to assume that to be "autistic", you have to be like Rainman [which is a bad stereotype].

Besides, where would Asperger's go if it was indeed separated from the spectrum?

^ I agree with the above and feel it might be dangerous to try and divide AS from the Autistic Spectrum, as they are so interlinked.

In fact, they've shown that on "theory of mind" tests, if you give an autistic child a picture-based one instead of a language-based one, they outperform NTs overall.

These are stereotypes based on inference from our appearances, nothing more.

(For reference, I'm an autistic person who's been labeled "low functioning" by doctors although as my sigfile attests to I don't put a lot of credence to that or the "high functioning" labels. I'm about to go to a convention next month that includes people who have had similar labels as people as people considered "high functioning" or "AS", and let me assure you that "theory of mind" and "creativity" are not absent any more than they are for the so-called "high functioning" And we wouldn't be going to a convention if we were all asocial or socially unaware of people's existence.)

i don't know alot about NVLD but it seems to me it fits alot more with this disorder than it does with autism. HFA should take the place of As i mean if there not going to dx people with normal iq's with classic autism thats where HFA could play a role.

Who said people with HFA couldn't have normal IQs?

i never said people with HFA couldn't have normal iq's. i said they never dx people with "classic autism" with normal iq's.

I've had an EEG that was very "abnormal", so I simply don't think like NTs. It's kinda hard to say a difference on a clinical level is a personality type.

@waterdogs: Sorry, I misread your post.

I think it's too narrow to say that Asperger's doesn't belong on the ASD spectrum simply because some professionals are not inclined to call someone HFA due to their IQ and functionality. Not all professionals do this, either - there ARE people who are diagnosed HFA and have scored an IQ score within the normal range.

"Mild" autism is still autism, albeit the symptoms of the syndrome are generally less severe.

I think basing the definition of autism around IQ scores [which can be flawed] and learning difficulties is ignoring the commonalities between the disorders. We should be changing the perception of autism, not changing the definition to fit outdated stereotypes and narrowing the spectrum.

PS: You might want to look at dyscalculia, which may describe your difficulty with maths.

PPS: People with NLDs don't necessarily have the other difficulties a person with autism faces, but as Sophist said, people with autism can also have a NLD.

"Classic autism" isn't actually a diagnosis, "autistic disorder" is the official diagnosis.

Many of Kanner's patients were so-called "high functioning" by today's standards, and they're the ones "classic autism" was supposedly based on.

Yes, there are many, many, many people diagnosed with "classic autism" who have normal IQs.

I'm one of them. Never been diagnosed "high functioning" anything, have "low functioning" in my records, and diagnosed with "autistic disorder". And my IQ is, as far as I know, normal. Not that I put much credence in IQ tests, but as far as I know my scores are all over the place but they average out to something approximating normal.

Most people seeing me on the street don't exactly get that impression. Most react to me as if I'm unaware of my surroundings etc. I look very unusual to the point where a lot of people assume I'm not really here. And, trust me, I'm here, not ever been designated "HFA", not ever been designated "aspie", have been designated "LFA" at times though I reject that as thoroughly as I do the other weird functioning labels... but certainly here.

The person who replied before my last reply regarded AS as "mild autism".

I don't know if there's a clear autism/AS distinction, but I know a researcher who does believe there is, and she says that AS is not "mild autism" or "mild anything" at all, it's a different pattern of strengths than standard "autism" and comes with its own set of problems, which are not "mild".

(I tend to think of all of these things as different types of something very similar, but I thought I'd mention what she'd said.)