non verbal autistics on the forums?

Post Reply New Topic

Hi everyone. I know this thread has gotten buried under newer ones recently, but I don't want to see it die. This is really interesting for me and I'm so excited to read all of it. I hope it'll continue.

I'm fully verbal, but totally understand the idea of written and spoken language being different. I have to teach the difference to my students every day! However, I have one question that may sound really stupid (and in fact I'm embarrassed to ask it), but it's honest and born of genuine curiosity and a desire to understand others better: how do non-verbals learn to read?

I ask because I learned to read very young (age 3), but still in the usual way, by "sounding out" words and letters. If you are NV, did you learn on your own? Did someone teach you? And if so, how? By reading to you? Or by explaining?

I personally am very high-functioning, but I have days when I'm a complete mess and drop way down to the low-functioning end of the spectrum. It seems to happen under extreme stress, mostly. When this happens I become partially non-verbal and find it far easier to type/write than speak. If people try to talk to me, I respond with as few words as possible and without eye contact. Then eventually it just goes away... But I can always understand things better when I see them written. Especially when it comes to learning new languages. I can hear the same phrase repeated a thousand times (like the recorded messages on public transport) and still have no idea what words are being said. See it written once, and I know it forever. It's never really occurred to me before, but now I wonder, are most people on the spectrum visual/verbal learners with difficulty understanding what they hear?

I very much like what you wrote about knowing/understanding words if written, but not if they're spoken. It reminds me very much of the time I spent down in Mexico, doing some English tutoring (among other things). I couldn't tell you how many people I encountered who could 'read' English but had no idea of how to 'speak' it. It really seemed to be an occurrence that went beyond mere pronounciation issues. Plus, those who could 'read' English but not speak it, were the absolutely hardest 'clients' to work with in terms of 'teaching' them verbal English. It was almost like they had cross-referenced their Spanish pronounciation 'rules' (of which there are very few, unlike English) into their verbal English attempts - to the point of hard-wiring it all! I basically had to perform as an amateur speech therapist and break down the physical movements (1. first, place your lips and tongue in these positions, 2. exhale somewhat strongly through your mouth, not your nose, 3. start the vocalization and then bring your tongue back from your teeth...there, you've just pronounced 'th'. Now we'll work on the letter 'z'...).


Above: from previous post on 'Page 2'.

Hey, kotshka. Think about reading as being two distinct processes ...or even two-'staged'. Reading is one thing; as referenced in the above copying of Native Mexicans 'reading' English.

Reading ALOUD is another. This second 'action' or 'step' actually involves interpreting/translating from written text to sounds that have been assigned to the 'pictures' we're seeing (as 'text'). [Some of the difficulty for me in this part is that I would definitely prefer to assign my own sounds - should sounds even be truly necessary - to 'text' since what's already 'assigned' doesn't 'work' for me... I'd maybe even like to invent my own text. Crazy, eh?]

We see something called text and may consider it as complete in/of itself. The 'pictures' that text creates make co-relating 'pictures' in our minds. Others of us see something called text and consider it as an unfulfilled (as-yet-incomplete) verbalization - a supplement or 'assist' to guide the text's users into putting the text into sounds.

What do other non-verbals think of the above?

So, to more fully answer kotshka's question...how do non-verbals learn to read? Very grudgingly...lol. Just kidding. The answers vary...some of us learn to read through an inhuman(e) number of repeated 'instructions', some of us learn through imitating/modeling those considered particularly important (which is often why someone learns ONLY from a mother or a sibling), some of us learn through the 'sink-or-swim' method (though such coercion often hurts more learners than it enables), some of us learn by 'doing it ourselves' and then coming back to instructor/others for corrections/clarifications with those clarifications coming to us in 'words' we can understand and/or with many re-phrasings ('re-phrasing' not necessarily limited only to verbal practices) of feedback (this is how I accomplish ANY of the Math that I do)...The truth is, what works in helping us learn to read is as varied as all the learning techniques there are that help us learn ANYTHING AT ALL.

There often are no shortcuts...sometimes/most times experimenting with any individual's learning 'style' is the only way to find success in 'teaching' (which is more about facilitating one's learning vs. just disseminating information) that individual. Plus, what may work for a particular individual in learning a particular task/skill might have no relevancy at all for that same individual learning a different task/skill.

I'm very verbal, but I relate to that too.

I'm a writer. I'm very skilled in writing, to the point of writing (but not publishing as that takes a whole bunch of organizational skills) full-length novels. I find that I'm a lot less tangential in writing than in speech, but speech flows much faster and easier for me. They're quite different.

Also, when I'm upset and my speech skills start breaking down, my writing is always about one step higher than my speech. There are several distinct stages: first I get compulsions not to say certain things (eg I can't say 'sorry' or 'yes', or ask for help) so I dance around what I actually mean. Then I start only being able to say single words/phrases, like 'go away' or 'I can't move' (my motor skills tend to break down around this time too), and finally unable to talk at all. At each stage for speech, my writing is generally one stage better.

Do others who can speak sometimes but not always, find that writing skills are more stable than speech skills?

Yes, I do. I don't have quite the strict "one step above" thing you do, as both can be variable, but my writing is much less likely to be impacted than my speech, and it is usually only impacted when my speech has been impacted.