Is there any research on ASD with ADHD

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My thoughts exactly.

From what I understand, ADHD kids as preschoolers typically are even more hyperactive etc than most preschoolers. It's like, there's age related shifts in activity level and such, but ADHD kids at any age are around the top 5% or so.



Yeah, in fact the 'ring of fire' SPECT finding is classic for bipolar disorder.

That's the example I was thinking of using, too.

I am on stimulant meds...they help..just a bit. I fit the criteria for both...I "pass" for ADD so that I can take stimulant meds. I have been assessed as having Asperger's. I was told that it meant that all of my ADD traits are more related to the ASD. I may think before speaking, then again i don't speak a lot..I have always had severe trouble with organization....I have executive dysfunction...I really don't understand why it is so necc. to try to separate ADD from ASDs...They are so very much intertwined...everyone's traits vary. Picking the two apart seems somewhat futile. There is no good in stigmatizing people who have strong ADD traits..I thought I saw at least one inference that seemed to imply that perhaps the thinking of an ADDer is somehow less significant...pertaining to their propensity to "hyperfocus"....I don't get it..then again this thread is confusing...I see a lot of comparing oranges to oranges..

Wow. This is a topic I'm going to have to bookmark. So much information here! I wish I had the time right now to look into it.

I have both AS and adult ADD. All three of my kids are on the spectrum and also have ADHD diagnoses.

I didn't read every post here, so maybe some of this has already been said.

I have found, with as little research as I have done on ADHD, that ADHD presents some problems that are quite similar to AS, yet others that are uniquely ADD.

There's a video out there produced by Rick Green (who used to be the producer for the Canadian comedy show "The Red Green Show"), and Patrick Mckenna (who was also on the show). It played on PBS for a while in my area, and it was so good, I bought the DVD. They've got a web site too. http://www.totallyadd.com. The video is called "ADD and Loving It."

Some of the things I learned from watching the video were that there are some similar experiences both ADDers and ASers have, some traits they share, and some traits, that if combined in co-morbidity, could present some very real, tough and unique problems that only people with both would experience.

The blog in my signature is dedicated to exploring these similarities and possible conflicts. It's pretty new, so there isn't much there yet. It was that video, plus a bunch of short one posted for free viewing on their web site that inspired me to start the blog.

It was also them that inspired my wife and I to explore putting our sons back on ADD meds. We had taken all of them off years ago because what they were taking wasn't working at all.

Anyway, I don't have much more to offer, but thanks to the OP for posting this. I've got it in my bookmarks now, and plan to explore the resources others have posted soon. Thanks to all of you for posting too!

It's an interesting thought, and yet someone can have both together.
It's all strange.

But, it makes me now wonder about "BAP" in relation to everything. Do BAP's( broader autism phenotypes) have the spectrum personality less executive functioning problems, less sensory issues? Is there even a real spectrum personality? There are some here, that are Dx'd btw, that score in the NT range of the RDOS test. Doesn't this negate a "spectrum personality?" In other words one could be "autistic" and have a neurotypical personality.

The necessity is a matter of treatment. ASDs are not treatable with medication, and ADHD is one of the most treatable (with medications) conditions in the DSM, and this appears to apply to autistic people who also have ADHD. Under the DSM-IV criteria (where autistic people could not also have ADHD) people with treatable symptoms didn't receive treatment for those symptoms.

Picking the two apart is also relevant in that not everyone on the spectrum meets the criteria for both. It was also assumed to be the case when the DSM-IV was written that autistic people who fit the criteria for ADHD did so because of issues related to their autism, whereas now they are recognized as distinct enough for medical professionals to use different modalities for each.

Even so, some people have suggested that ADHD is actually related to the autistic spectrum.

Anyway, I have no idea what you're referring to with regards to "stigmatizing people who have strong ADHD traits" or that the thinking of an ADHDer is somehow less significant. Could you clarify these?

As far as it goes, I am diagnosed with both ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome.

The bolded sentence intrigues me.

What do you mean by a 'spectrum personality' or 'neurotypical personality'?

Most screening tests misclassify a few people either because they're near the border, or they interpreted the questions in a different way than usual.

Regarding BAP, they are people who don't meet the criteria for autism or another disability (if they have a disability that overlaps with autism the term is 'cousin') but have some autistic traits. Typically, they have certain traits to a milder degree, and don't have traits in all areas. So for example they may have mild sensory issues and no executive dysfunction, or mild executive dysfunction and no sensory issues, or mild both. Or be shy and a bit aloof, but able to function fine socially when they choose to. Or whatever.

Hard for me to pick thru and find the part that I interpreted that way. I have been on the board a long time, and sometimes there have been other threads where ADHDers seemed to be picked on at times...and perhaps thought of as intellectually inferior. I do think that ADHD is on the spectrum. As a person who meets the criteria for both, I find that it renders me quite dysfunctional in comparison to most people my age...I envy people on the spectrum who do not have ADD traits...(I fit the criteria for more than one form of ADD, which I guess would make me "combined type", were one to seperate the ADD from the ASD). The meds I take only help me with a small fragment of my issues, and with or without them, I still tend to be quite dysfunctional.

I guess I feel that way when people sometimes talk about how organized they are able to be. I am envious of that trait, as there is so much that I would like to be able to organize and regiment, but lack the capacity to do so without extreme effort. The lack of ability to organize has been like a giant rock I have had to drag around with me for all of my life.
And yet, I still supposedly meet the criteria of AS.....I have often heard it said that ADD must be like the opposite of AS, but how could that be when so many (but not all) people with AS also have ADD symptoms. I envy people on the spectum who are able to organize and regiment themselves, but obviously not all of them can if so very many also have ADD traits.

I understand that having "just" ADD is different. I have known ADDers who were seemingly more "NT" outwardly...mainly in the sense of coming off as socially gregarious...but even within those more "NT" seeming ADDers I have seen lurking AS traits..(In retrospect)...

AS became "mainstream" only fairly recently. Before I knew that there was such a thing as "higher functioning autism" I addressed all of my issues in ADD forums. There was not always such a thing as an active AS forum...and before that time ADD forums were all that there were for people like me...so presumably many people in those forums were likely ASD candidates as well.

Speculation was made when I was young about my obvious developmental difficulties combined with my above average intelligence, and I did get some special treatment when I was in school from time to time to help accomodate for my differences from the other kids...but AS was nary a blip on the radar in those days....

The lables make things confusing, and I am confused by the separation of 2 things which (to my understanding) affect a similar part of the brain and cause similar impairments.

Even if not all people on the spectrum are affected by it.

Ettina, nothing really important, just a few thoughts.

Spectrum personality = traits of it but expressed to non- impairments.

So for example: These online tests/quizzes such as the popular "Aspie Quiz" give you a neurotypical score or an autism score or a mix of both.

I've noticed over the last few years some of the Dx'd ( here @ WP) score way in the NT zone as any NT , and yet with a "Dx." These tests to a large degree measure "personality." The "score" correlates with a Dx, but it is inconclusive of having the condition.

There isn't a "personality" type in this as going by this. There can be extrovert aspies or at least the desire is present. I get the sense these tests are weighted to introversion as the vast majority of spectrumites score into this zone as the controls. Some do not.

Or say going by BAP criteria of maybe having a shadow of Executive problems or sensory problems then you safely can say that ADHD is on the spectrum. These people can have sensory issues. Executive function is the heart of ADHD.

If BAP can be a shadow of the spectrum by these traits then ADHD is on this spectrum? I've noticed parents here can have children in that one is ADHD and the other is "Aspie." Or there are several of each type in the same family.

It seems the vast majority of research point to these as being distinct and completely separate-- " a different condition all together."

"ADHD is not an ASD spectrum disorder."

Really, it distills down to a developmental disorder vs. a pervasive developmental disorder. But how un -persasive is ADHD? I know I have dysgraphia along side it. I have a large head with "big brown eyes." And these eyes are noticable by others. There seems to be threads here on "Aspie eyes."


I''m having trouble tying this together, in a flowing coherent thought. My (working memory) or thoughts are disjointed this morning.

There's a lot. I might try to find link that others have not posted.

But, I think that I have ADHD, along with my PDD-NOS, among others. It explains my constant movement. And at times, I do cutoff people when I talk, because the sound can overstimulates my thoughts and I end up forgetting what I have to say, so I usually go over it over and over again in my head to prevent this from happening too often (still does however). And I thought it correlated with my Sleep Apnea. My brother has ADHD, but he's practically the exact opposite of me. He's extremely social, but he's all over the place, with him switching to several different subjects in a minutes span of talking, constant dancing for no apparent reason, easily distracted, and even the quick meltdowns and cutting people off when talking. He's fits pretty much all of the symptoms.

That's made me wonder if I had it or does correlate more of ASDs, then something that specific of an disorder. I do deal with my muscles jumping or twitching from time to time if I stopped moving for a lengthy, even happens on my face every now and then, so maybe I have something else....

I'm really quite similar on this - the meds help, but they don't make me fully functional. I've said elsewhere that I think the meds actually make me more autistic in some ways (rigid, singular focus, etc).

Now that you've clarified you've seen it in other discussions, I think I know what you mean about the sense of being seen as "intellectually inferior." I've seen some pretty astonishingly negative things said about both ADHD and medicating ADHD on this forum.



I relate all too well to this, too. I am amazed that people can be so highly organized. I have a tendency to organize things and a preference for organization, but a lack of ability to manage much organization at all, and I'm fairly disorganized most of the time. My ability to set up coherent directory structures on my computer doesn't translate well to any ability to organize my living space.



I totally disagree with people who say they must be the opposite. I actually think they are in some ways complementary and mutually reinforcing. I am not sure where the idea that they're opposites comes from, but my perspective is as someone who has both.



I've noticed the same. I know one woman who has severe ADHD and can sound rather autistic at times, even though she apparently isn't autistic at all.



The point of separate labels is the point of separate treatments - ADHD is treatable with medication, AS is not. The need for the former label is so people can receive medication. That and someone with ADHD is unlikely to have a full complement of impairments that are common to people on the autistic spectrum.

I have ADHD and yes i can hyper focus. I've been in labs and worked 6 hours SOLID without a break. Pretty much looked up and was like WTF, where did this time go? It's hard to start something, but when I do it's not too bad (as long as it is remotely interesting)

However on topics that are not interesting in one bit - I literally get the feeling to jump of a bridge. I get the feeling my mind and soul are crushing. It's REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hard to focus on something uninteresting and unchallenging. It's horrible.

I'd agree that ADHD is kinda the opposite of AS in some respects - however many do have SOME similar traits. We can take language literally, we can have problems socialising, we can over analyse things too much (although in my case i don't analyse anything and take everything at face value). Many with ADHD can be extremely tidy as well. It all depends on the person.

technically the DSM rules out a dual dx here the critera for each require that there isn't another dx that better explains the sx. (dx diagnosis, sx symptoms) mind you there is no method laid out to differentiate between the two. Paying attention to the wrong things look a whole lot like not paying attention at all. Ultimatly odds are that if you were born in the 70s or 80s you were dx'd with ADD, and most of the professionals out there then are still out there now, the go with what they know until you give them a reason not to.

That criteria won't survive into the DSM-V. I doubt many actually follow that criteria at all - several people on this forum, even in this thread, have a dual DX of ADHD and an ASD.

I was born in 1969 and I wasn't diagnosed with anything, despite being pretty obvious (as I have come to learn).