A culture good for Aspies?

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Sweden, in the very top right hand corner of the diagram, is one of the worst examples of a nanny state. I guess this is fine if you're a relatively robust Aspie who would be more attractive to, and can find, a potential partner. At least that would make you less likely to get accused of sexual deviancy, when being a nanny state you're more likely to be presumed guilty of things like that until proven innocent. On that note, when I was in contact with a Swedish girl online all she ever did was to try to suss me out and was obsessed with what she perceived was wrong with me, particularly about why I was the way I was and especially about why I was single. She was at university and at that point wasn't entirely sure what she wanted to do for a career, however she thought she'd like to be a businesswoman and, like, join a company and work her way up. I asked if, when she was a career woman, she would wear skirt suits, blouses and skirts and other such business dress. She was highly offended and took serious umbrage. Although I hold my hand up and say I ask because secretly to them, I have a fetish for such clothing, I should point out that when I ask this to ladies in the US, or UK, they are very unlikely to be offended and don't take umbrage. Only in Sweden! (Don't get me started on Germany though, all I can say is it seems to me to be in the right position on the culture map.) Sweden has recently banned anime (well, certain types of it) something to do with the appearance of the characters who are not even underage characters. I don't read or watch anime, but found this out from a WrongPlanet post. Apparently things like this are how values in the top right of the culture map manifest.

To me the BOTTOM right hand corner would be a better fit - it seems to be empty of countries on the chart but the interior/'red states' of the US are probably in that position. However, please don't take this as representing a view of what's best for the Aspie community at large. It's simply based on personal experience of how I fit in with cultures, and personal experience is as good as any indicator.

I think you are wrong here. My expereince and observation has shown me that countries with the highest social order also tolerate the hight degree social eccentricity. Take the arab world for exemple. there is few social order (people are late, generally unrealliable and rules are never respected) in those countries, the social norms tend to be extremly normative, the best exemple of that is homosexuality. In country like germany where rules are followed and people are on time, it is socially accepted to be socially eccentric. So you are fortunatly wrong.

Also, I live in a country that is one of the most individualistic, yet I still find the groupthink and herd mentality oppressive. Just because it's individualistic and free doesn't mean such groupthink and herd mentality isn't strong at a societal level, and would be a problem anywhere. If this is bad, a collective culture like Singapore would be even more socially oppressive to me.

Hell is supposed to be oppressive.

If, when having a discussion about my career plans, a man tried to steer it toward his SEXUAL FETISHES, I'd be pretty put-off, as well.

A couple of other thoughts on this question:

1. Relating to the OP's question and major Aspie traits being contradictory to each other, what chance is there that a 'nation of contradictions' might be best? Somewhere that's politically liberal yet socially conservative, or vice versa. Wild guesses at such countries are Ireland, Poland, Portugal and certain US states (Great Lakes/Upper Midwest?) Certainly, these are among the most free countries in the world in terms of their civil rights and liberties, but there's a 'Chinese in the armour' in that their social conservatism has not yet caught up with their political advancedness.

2. Societies that are advanced and individualistic, certainly the best thing for Aspies, but have a 'Chinese in the armour' in that aspects of their level of health don't match that advancedness. This could be due to indicators such as a lower life expectancy than expected for how advanced the nation or region otherwise is. The obvious example is, again, interior and red state USA and I find such societies much more tolerant and accepting of myself and probably other Aspies, compared to societies with a better health level. Sure, the healthier societies most likely have the advantage of better procedures regarding assistance for those with disabilities, but on a societal, personal level people in that society feel they can afford to give us the cold shoulder because they are more hale and hearty. If the health record is a notch lower than e.g. the Swedish example I posted earlier, the society can relate better to us or at least that's definitely my experience.

Several things would be required for any culture to accept ASD citizens as the norm

#1: it would have to be technologically, academically, and artistically advanced beyond human measure.

Most of the things that comes out of an Aspies mouth are too complicated and/or too sophisticated (i.e. advanced) for NTs to understand. If we were to make our own country on the moon along with its own culture, it would be essential to make the progress of ideas a priority.

#2: It would need to have its own form of communication

Most Human beings convey what they say in three ways. It is usually 15% information , 35% tone of voice, and 55% body language. ASD individuals are a major exception to this trend. Our society would need to communicate at least 90% with information alone, and 10% at most by other means. Our language would then become extremely literal, and would require its own vocabulary to translate otherwise foreign concepts. NTs visiting our world would be baffled by this trend, and would probably face the same biases we face today.

#3: It would need Radical changes in education

We could not, and should not, emphasize academic criteria on the populous. Many Aspies excel academically, and those who don't have much more fundamental problems to address. Such academia would need to give way to intense social skills training and communication exercises, at least throughout grade school. To avoid the social dilemmas of higher grades, it should be a requirement to go through puberty before transferring schools. This would be a requirement for our society, but other societies would be wise to mimic us.

#4: Acceptance must be the fundamental basis of culture

In the same way our forefathers fought hard to create freedom of speech and freedom of press, we would need to create freedom of individuality. This would be the hardest step by far, but would make us the new America, with all that implies. We would enact laws that not only regulate how much you can correct someone, but how much you can criticize them, and more importantly what true criticism should be. This is an even more radical but necessary move, as ASD personalities are bizarre even to others with ASD, and oppression as a whole must be nipped in the bud as early as possible. These are the kinds of things wars are made out of, and we would have to fight for our independence as a nation before this could become completely enacted. It won't be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is.

Anyway, thats all I have to say about that.

I think aspies can be everywhere.., i think living around other people makes it just so amazing because you can see how different you are(mostly in positive ways). and for sure we also need other people because a good community is a combination of both.

If you have #2, #3 is unnecessary if you can change social norms to be less hostile to us. If you have #3, #2, is unnecessary since we will be able to learn how to adapt to existent social norms. Between the two, #3 is more realistic, and #2 is easier on us. But I wouldn't put them as two separate criteria. Rather, an either/or approach here would suffice.

IMHO

The Hippie Culture/Counter Culture. They're the most accepting group of people I know, which is why I love them and am a self proclaimed one.

I can say this: living in a country that is more collectivist than the USA isn't that bad. I don't know how collectivist a country I could tolerate though, as I come from the UK and that is obviously not very collectivist (it's just more so than the US and that's not saying much).

Sooner or later we will be the counter culture of the 21st century.

We will definitely be unexpected and more then the world could handle.

But if they can accept us, benefits will come not just for Aspies, but human beings as a whole

My experiences would bear that out. They practically saved my life back in the late 70s and early 80s. They were the only people I knew who really practised the non-judgemental thing, and I always had people I could visit whenever I wanted to, without any fear of being pushed away.

Here's another suggestion, to which this thread is relevant.

A good culture quite understandably being the culture(s) of outsiders of any type within the place you happen to be located, as opposed to the mainstream herd mentality insider culture.

If it has to be based on country or location, then whichever country has or creates the most outsiders within its national culture for whatever reason. These outsiders then become people we'd have more relatability with. I guess this confirms the individualistic cultures are best.

this is great, maybe not very accurate but great xD

This is very insightful. I see some evidence that a few posters here seemed to have missed the point, but I haven't read every response. I just want to say I think you are spot on with your observation and the way you followed through with how things might or must play out for us in different societies.

The bottom line, if I understand you correctly, is that there probably no ideal society in existence that would work well for us as a whole. And that brings me to a point many of us have a hard time accepting. Banging your head against the wall of whichever society you live within just gives you a headache, and doesn't really accomplish anything worthwhile. I'm not a proponent of Autistics conforming to society, or of society conforming to us. The "solution" in my mind isn't one or the other.

It's both.

We need to learn to adjust, yet we also need to learn to teach others about ourselves. Adjustment for Autsitics needs to be a two-way street. We should not be the only ones learning to adjust to everyone around us. They should be learning also to adjust to us. It has to happen both ways.

ToM too often seems to be treated as if it is our problem, not anyone else's. Nothing could be further from the truth. Society needs to start learning something about the way our minds work too. If ToM IS only our problem, then exercising ToM toward us shouldn't be so much of a problem for non- Autistics, right?

The trouble is, though NT's are pretty good at practicing ToM with each other, from what I've seen, they aren't very good at it when it comes to imagining how the Autistic mind works. So when it comes to considering the mind set of each other, we aren't very good at it with anybody, while they are not very good at it with US.

It's almost like a catch-22, but it's a catch that not only we need to get past, so do they.

If we can ever get to the point were as many NT's are actually admitting they aren't good at ToM where we are concerned, and start trying to understand us by LISTENING to us, and at the same time, WE are doing the same for them (at least trying our best to), then I don't think it'll really matter much whether we live in a highly structured society or not.