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Do you think the man in the film is mild, mod or severe?

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AlexWelshman
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25 Aug 2011, 4:33 pm

League_Girl wrote:
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wavefreak58 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Do you consider youself disabled, Wavefreak, is the question. If you don't, maybe it's possible to have Autism without disability. This type of thing always confuses me, especially with Autism because of the spectrum nature.
Can Autism and disability be two seperate things?


How do you measure disability?

I am employed. But I have a 99th percentile IQ (yeah - I know IQ's are dubious) and I do what is effectively entry level database work after 20 years in the field. Am I a burden to the system? No. Am I anywhere close to meeting my potential? No. Would society as a whole see a return on its investment if I had appropriate services and interventions that allowed me to work at the level of my intrinsic abilities? I think so. Will this happen? Not likely, I'm too "high functioning" so I'm on my own. So I am miserable because I get so bored at work I want to gouge out my eyes (no joke - it takes will power not to self harm), the world gains nothing but a database drone, and I get labeled as "not disabled".


Well, if you can work and live on your own, then, by definition, you aren't disabled. But, a declaration of disability should not be required to allow everyone to work at their full potential. This goes for everyone irregardless of neurological status.


What about deaf people or blind people or people in wheelchairs? Some of them live alone. Are they not disabled? Some of them even have jobs. I have even seen people in wheelchairs drive cars too. I don't know how they do it. I am sure some of them don't see themselves as disabled either.

My husband is considered disabled but he doesn't see himself as that way.
I agree with you.



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25 Aug 2011, 4:42 pm

League_Girl wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
So the fact that this young man would likely die without support means nothing? How is that high functioning? I don't get it. He has no concept of safety, cannot walk on the street or ride a bike without serious risk of getting hit by a car. His kitchen could have caught fire while he spun on his chair if his mother hadn't intervened.

Left completely to myself, I would survive. Perhaps by eating out of a dumpster and sleeping in a cardboard box. But I would live.

Let's be real, here (it is the aspie thing, right?). Functional labels are arbitrary and provide little insight into an individual's challenges. This young man's disabilities are heavily compensated for by the intervention of dedicated parents. It's fantastic that he has this level of support. But applying a functioning level to him is pointless. Remove his support network and he will crash and burn. Maybe literally.
Well, there are people with a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome who also have no awearness of danger, & they are clearly considered high functioning. Don't forget that high functioning doesn't nessaserally mean mild.



Well they aren't real aspies then. Doctors just like to place autism labels on patients with autism but don't use Asperger's correctly. In fact I hear lot of aspies don't really have it and most of them are actually autistic.
Well, what if they didn't have a speech deley, but still had no awearness of hazards?



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25 Aug 2011, 4:42 pm

Same here, Wavefreak. I don't qualify for anything. I have trouble accessing my potential. I exist in shades of grey.



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25 Aug 2011, 4:47 pm

AlexWelshman wrote:
Well, what if they didn't have a speech deley, but still had no awearness of hazards?


The new criteria in the DSM-V describes trying to distinguish among AS, autism, and PDD-NOS is like trying to cleave a meatloaf at the joints.

After getting over the fact that meatloaf has no joints, I realized that was the point of the comparison: there's no distinctly clear diagnostic category, just a few (three) categories distinguished by specific traits that do not seem to actually get people diagnosed according to their full symptom profile and history.



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25 Aug 2011, 4:49 pm

There's people who live on their own but still have trouble supporting themselves. Technically, they aren't disabled. Where do they fit in?



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25 Aug 2011, 4:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There's people who live on their own but still have trouble supporting themselves. Technically, they aren't disabled. Where do they fit in?


This is sort of my point. What makes a marginal existence without support any better than a decent existence with support?


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25 Aug 2011, 5:24 pm

AlexWelshman wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
So the fact that this young man would likely die without support means nothing? How is that high functioning? I don't get it. He has no concept of safety, cannot walk on the street or ride a bike without serious risk of getting hit by a car. His kitchen could have caught fire while he spun on his chair if his mother hadn't intervened.

Left completely to myself, I would survive. Perhaps by eating out of a dumpster and sleeping in a cardboard box. But I would live.

Let's be real, here (it is the aspie thing, right?). Functional labels are arbitrary and provide little insight into an individual's challenges. This young man's disabilities are heavily compensated for by the intervention of dedicated parents. It's fantastic that he has this level of support. But applying a functioning level to him is pointless. Remove his support network and he will crash and burn. Maybe literally.
Well, there are people with a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome who also have no awearness of danger, & they are clearly considered high functioning. Don't forget that high functioning doesn't nessaserally mean mild.



Well they aren't real aspies then. Doctors just like to place autism labels on patients with autism but don't use Asperger's correctly. In fact I hear lot of aspies don't really have it and most of them are actually autistic.
Well, what if they didn't have a speech deley, but still had no awearness of hazards?


Aspies aren't supposed to have speech delays and they are supposed to be aware of danger. I wouldn't see them as a real aspie either if they only had one of the above. I think that is also another reason why they are getting rid of AS and PDD-NOS and making it all autism. Makes it less confusing but then it makes it confusing still because it's a spectrum. Autism doesn't tell me what their limitations are or what they can do and how high functioning they are or how low.



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25 Aug 2011, 6:14 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Aspies aren't supposed to have speech delays and they are supposed to be aware of danger. I wouldn't see them as a real aspie either if they only had one of the above. I think that is also another reason why they are getting rid of AS and PDD-NOS and making it all autism. Makes it less confusing but then it makes it confusing still because it's a spectrum. Autism doesn't tell me what their limitations are or what they can do and how high functioning they are or how low.


Yeah, I think the awareness of danger is covered with the "no delay in adaptive or self-help skills." But most people diagnosed with AS seem to have delays of that specific kind. My understanding is that it generally gets ignored. My self-help/adaptive skill difficulties are a frequent point of discussion in therapy and yet they didn't get me a PDD-NOS diagnosis instead.



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25 Aug 2011, 8:26 pm

Verdandi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Aspies aren't supposed to have speech delays and they are supposed to be aware of danger. I wouldn't see them as a real aspie either if they only had one of the above. I think that is also another reason why they are getting rid of AS and PDD-NOS and making it all autism. Makes it less confusing but then it makes it confusing still because it's a spectrum. Autism doesn't tell me what their limitations are or what they can do and how high functioning they are or how low.


Yeah, I think the awareness of danger is covered with the "no delay in adaptive or self-help skills." But most people diagnosed with AS seem to have delays of that specific kind. My understanding is that it generally gets ignored. My self-help/adaptive skill difficulties are a frequent point of discussion in therapy and yet they didn't get me a PDD-NOS diagnosis instead.

The awareness may be diminished in Asperger's but not altogether lacking. Aspies could be more inclined to take risk but know not to leave a burner on the stove on without supervision or that a highway is filled with traffic and is quite dangerous to cross.



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25 Aug 2011, 9:11 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The awareness may be diminished in Asperger's but not altogether lacking. Aspies could be more inclined to take risk but know not to leave a burner on the stove on without supervision or that a highway is filled with traffic and is quite dangerous to cross.


There are no hard and fast rules here. There are people diagnosed with AS who might sometimes (or all the time) not realize that traffic is dangerous. I know of at least one.

For many of us, what we get diagnosed with is a matter of chance - who sees us and what they determine based on history, observations, and their own biases. There is no distinct part of the spectrum that can absolutely be labeled "Asperger's" that is 100% distinct from "classic autism." There are, at best, statistical tendencies and trends. The category of "Asperger's Syndrome" is defined almost entirely by exclusion: You're autistic, except you don't have speech delays, self-help delays, or adaptive skill delays. Except that many people with one or two or all three of those gets diagnosed with AS anyway.



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25 Aug 2011, 9:12 pm

This video reminded me of my fears, how am I going to support myself when my mother dies? At present the idea of me working at a job of any sort of mad, and going to school even more unlikely, it's very scary and I envy the amount of support he has gotten up to this point.

And he's moderate.


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AlexWelshman
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26 Aug 2011, 2:09 am

League_Girl wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
So the fact that this young man would likely die without support means nothing? How is that high functioning? I don't get it. He has no concept of safety, cannot walk on the street or ride a bike without serious risk of getting hit by a car. His kitchen could have caught fire while he spun on his chair if his mother hadn't intervened.

Left completely to myself, I would survive. Perhaps by eating out of a dumpster and sleeping in a cardboard box. But I would live.

Let's be real, here (it is the aspie thing, right?). Functional labels are arbitrary and provide little insight into an individual's challenges. This young man's disabilities are heavily compensated for by the intervention of dedicated parents. It's fantastic that he has this level of support. But applying a functioning level to him is pointless. Remove his support network and he will crash and burn. Maybe literally.
Well, there are people with a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome who also have no awearness of danger, & they are clearly considered high functioning. Don't forget that high functioning doesn't nessaserally mean mild.



Well they aren't real aspies then. Doctors just like to place autism labels on patients with autism but don't use Asperger's correctly. In fact I hear lot of aspies don't really have it and most of them are actually autistic.
Well, what if they didn't have a speech deley, but still had no awearness of hazards?


Aspies aren't supposed to have speech delays and they are supposed to be aware of danger. I wouldn't see them as a real aspie either if they only had one of the above. I think that is also another reason why they are getting rid of AS and PDD-NOS and making it all autism. Makes it less confusing but then it makes it confusing still because it's a spectrum. Autism doesn't tell me what their limitations are or what they can do and how high functioning they are or how low.

My mum seems to think that some people with AS (by no means all) will actually loose the diagnosis of autism, because not all people with AS have all of the diagnostic critirea. Some don't have all the symptoms. I know someone who was diagnosed with AS, but recentyly he's gone to a psyciatrist & his diagnoses has changed to ADHD & an anxiety disorder. I wonder if this new thing is the reason why.



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26 Aug 2011, 2:40 am

AlexWelshman wrote:
My mum seems to think that some people with AS (by no means all) will actually loose the diagnosis of autism, because not all people with AS have all of the diagnostic critirea. Some don't have all the symptoms. I know someone who was diagnosed with AS, but recentyly he's gone to a psyciatrist & his diagnoses has changed to ADHD & an anxiety disorder. I wonder if this new thing is the reason why.


Probably not.

Research indicates that most people who fit the criteria for AS or PDD-NOS actually also fit the criteria for autism, which is one of the reasons this is happening.

Also people who currently have a PDD diagnosis will have an ASD diagnosis afterward. It's just a shift for those of us diagnosed prior to the DSM-V's official release.



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26 Aug 2011, 12:00 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Aspies aren't supposed to have speech delays and they are supposed to be aware of danger. I wouldn't see them as a real aspie either if they only had one of the above. I think that is also another reason why they are getting rid of AS and PDD-NOS and making it all autism. Makes it less confusing but then it makes it confusing still because it's a spectrum. Autism doesn't tell me what their limitations are or what they can do and how high functioning they are or how low.


Yeah, I think the awareness of danger is covered with the "no delay in adaptive or self-help skills." But most people diagnosed with AS seem to have delays of that specific kind. My understanding is that it generally gets ignored. My self-help/adaptive skill difficulties are a frequent point of discussion in therapy and yet they didn't get me a PDD-NOS diagnosis instead.

The awareness may be diminished in Asperger's but not altogether lacking. Aspies could be more inclined to take risk but know not to leave a burner on the stove on without supervision or that a highway is filled with traffic and is quite dangerous to cross.



I think the kind of danger they may have difficulty with is with people like I have put myself in unsafe situations and wasn't aware of it and I had no fear. But I notice normal people put themselves in danger too but what is the difference? Maybe they are aware and they are just taking caution of risks and the aspie isn't aware when they do it? But once they are informed of the dangers and they still do it, then I guess it's no longer their AS since it's been spelled out to them and now it's just them being cautious and risky or stupid like if they went through Central Park at night after being told it's not safe at night and why or trying to swim across the river after being told it's not safe and why. If that isn't AS and they don't have difficulty in that either, then I guess that would mean I am higher up on the spectrum. But I don't think I have that problem anymore after what my husband told me so now that trait is gone and now I am either being stupid or just taking risks because I am aware what could happen because of what I have been told. But I have no fear.

I have left the burner on on the stove a few times because I didn't realize I had left it on. So I turn it off when I see it's on. My husband does this too sometimes but I think this is normal if you only do this sometimes.



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26 Aug 2011, 12:04 pm

Verdandi wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
My mum seems to think that some people with AS (by no means all) will actually loose the diagnosis of autism, because not all people with AS have all of the diagnostic critirea. Some don't have all the symptoms. I know someone who was diagnosed with AS, but recentyly he's gone to a psyciatrist & his diagnoses has changed to ADHD & an anxiety disorder. I wonder if this new thing is the reason why.


Probably not.

Research indicates that most people who fit the criteria for AS or PDD-NOS actually also fit the criteria for autism, which is one of the reasons this is happening.

Also people who currently have a PDD diagnosis will have an ASD diagnosis afterward. It's just a shift for those of us diagnosed prior to the DSM-V's official release.



But what happens to the minority who do have real AS, they don't meet the autistic criteria?



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26 Aug 2011, 4:48 pm

League_Girl wrote:

But what happens to the minority who do have real AS, they don't meet the autistic criteria?


People who currently have a PDD diagnosis will have an ASD diagnosis under the new DSM, is my understanding.

For those who have difficulties and haven't yet been diagnosed but don't meet the ASD criteria, there is at least one other diagnosis relating to social impairment that they may fit.