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Would you rather be autistic or have BPD?

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DaWalker
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24 Dec 2011, 2:03 pm

DaWalker wrote:
Would you rather be autistic or have BPD?

I can not imagine how a bird feels about being born that way.
At times I wish I could fly, but there are many other consequences I would rather not deal with.


EDIT:
And I am pretty certain birds feel the same way about humans.


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24 Dec 2011, 2:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.



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24 Dec 2011, 2:13 pm

I wouldn't want to be anything other than what I am.



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24 Dec 2011, 2:35 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


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24 Dec 2011, 2:57 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


ADHD is often a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control, and yet it is not viewed as a personality disorder. There is some overlap in features between the two conditions, and in ADHD these features are not viewed as personality traits while in BPD they are. It's not a question of what the symptoms are but how they're framed.

When my depression was at its most severe, I had Cotard delusion - I actually believed I had died. It didn't affect my outward behavior much, but it did affect my moods and thoughts rather considerably until I got past it.



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24 Dec 2011, 3:26 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


ADHD is often a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control, and yet it is not viewed as a personality disorder. There is some overlap in features between the two conditions, and in ADHD these features are not viewed as personality traits while in BPD they are. It's not a question of what the symptoms are but how they're framed.

When my depression was at its most severe, I had Cotard delusion - I actually believed I had died. It didn't affect my outward behavior much, but it did affect my moods and thoughts rather considerably until I got past it.


Ok well it does get rather complex........but yeah from my understanding though ADHD is not really a behavioral problem as it does not have anything to do with intentional behavior. Not being able to sit still because of the way your brain works for instance is not really behavior at least not in my opinion because I would think behavior has to be based on something. like if someone makes me angry so I yell at them, or I get bored of something an intentionally move on to a different activity.....but having an issue with hyperactivity does not seem behavioral to me for instance.

I just cannot really see how BPD would fit under the catagory of mood disorders, I don't see what is wrong with having it classified as a personality disorder.


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24 Dec 2011, 3:33 pm

I prefer to have BPD because I could still say that I'm NT and could sometimes push it aside, whereas Autism seems to be right in my face all the time and I can't get away from it, and I don't like being labelled specifically with this disorder it just makes me feel miserable because it makes me feel more different to other people than what I really am.


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24 Dec 2011, 4:27 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


I'd say the self defeating pattern of behavior is driven by emotions though. The only difference is the emotions tend to be triggered by specific situations instead of being the result of an overriding mood. It isn't quite a mood disorder but I'd call it a hyper-reactive emotion disorder rather than a personality disorder. I'd also disagree that its something permanent like the other personality disorders.



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24 Dec 2011, 4:29 pm

marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


I'd say the self defeating pattern of behavior is driven by emotions though. The only difference is the emotions tend to be triggered by specific situations instead of being the result of an overriding mood. It isn't quite a mood disorder but I'd call it a hyper-reactive emotion disorder rather than a personality disorder. I'd also disagree that its something permanent like the other personality disorders.


Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


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marshall
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24 Dec 2011, 4:43 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


I'd say the self defeating pattern of behavior is driven by emotions though. The only difference is the emotions tend to be triggered by specific situations instead of being the result of an overriding mood. It isn't quite a mood disorder but I'd call it a hyper-reactive emotion disorder rather than a personality disorder. I'd also disagree that its something permanent like the other personality disorders.


Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


I've heard it tends to get better with age.

In any case, I doubt I'll ever be cured of depression and I could mention the ways in which depression is intertwined with my personality. There's a pretty good correlation between depression and certain personality traits, mainly introversion and having a very critical and analytical mind. People who are more social and people who don't think or question much tend to be happier. So I could suppose that my depression is a personality disorder too.



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24 Dec 2011, 4:57 pm

marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


I'd say the self defeating pattern of behavior is driven by emotions though. The only difference is the emotions tend to be triggered by specific situations instead of being the result of an overriding mood. It isn't quite a mood disorder but I'd call it a hyper-reactive emotion disorder rather than a personality disorder. I'd also disagree that its something permanent like the other personality disorders.


Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


I've heard it tends to get better with age.

In any case, I doubt I'll ever be cured of depression and I could mention the ways in which depression is intertwined with my personality. There's a pretty good correlation between depression and certain personality traits, mainly introversion and having a very critical and analytical mind. People who are more social and people who don't think or question much tend to be happier. So I could suppose that my depression is a personality disorder too.


never mind......obviously I am not making any sense.


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marshall
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24 Dec 2011, 5:21 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
A mood disorder? don't think so because it's not just about the mood........BPD involves a lot of specific personality traits not just problems with emotions and moods. So it would not be a good idea to lump it in with mood disorders.


Mood disorders aren't just about the mood, either. Major depressive disorder can feature psychotic features, for example. Anxiety can cause dissociation.

But I am not sure that BPD describes personality traits. It describes defense mechanisms, emotional lability, social hypersensitivity to the point of social impairment, a tendency toward self-destructive behaviors and impulsiveness (the latter being one of the most common symptoms in the DSM - a big part of ADHD is impulsiveness and it is not characterized as a personality trait).

It does feature an unstable sense of self, which could be characterized as a personality trait. However, this often appears alongside dissociation, which features in several not PD disorders.


Well I know that I do have Major Depression......however mood disorders do not really include specific self defeating personality traits. Also psychotic features are usually kinda rare with depression the more severe the depression the more possible that is, I think I've experianced minor psychotic features though my PTSD could also explain that.

BPD is a personality disorder because its basically a self defeating pattern of behavior that the individual cannot quite control.......its basically a part of their personality so that is why it's so difficult to treat Personality Disorders. But I am no expert I can only apply the knowledge I have to this discussion.


I'd say the self defeating pattern of behavior is driven by emotions though. The only difference is the emotions tend to be triggered by specific situations instead of being the result of an overriding mood. It isn't quite a mood disorder but I'd call it a hyper-reactive emotion disorder rather than a personality disorder. I'd also disagree that its something permanent like the other personality disorders.


Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


I've heard it tends to get better with age.

In any case, I doubt I'll ever be cured of depression and I could mention the ways in which depression is intertwined with my personality. There's a pretty good correlation between depression and certain personality traits, mainly introversion and having a very critical and analytical mind. People who are more social and people who don't think or question much tend to be happier. So I could suppose that my depression is a personality disorder too.


never mind......obviously I am not making any sense.


No you're fine. I see where you're coming from. I just doubt whether things like mood/personality disorders really fit so neatly into categories. It's mainly that I don't like the idea of writing someone off as a lost cause beyond help which seems to be what category of "personality disorder" is used for. It's not that people with BPD are innocent, they definitely aren't, but it makes more sense to me for psychologists to focus on what's going on inside the person and look for ways to relieve it rather than just focusing on negative behavior.



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24 Dec 2011, 6:30 pm

I don't know enough about BPD to comment properly. I thought BPD stood for bipolar disorder or something but evidently not.



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24 Dec 2011, 8:22 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Ok well it does get rather complex........but yeah from my understanding though ADHD is not really a behavioral problem as it does not have anything to do with intentional behavior. Not being able to sit still because of the way your brain works for instance is not really behavior at least not in my opinion because I would think behavior has to be based on something. like if someone makes me angry so I yell at them, or I get bored of something an intentionally move on to a different activity.....but having an issue with hyperactivity does not seem behavioral to me for instance.


ADHD isn't strictly about hyperactivity, and it was believed to be a behavioral disorder for a long time. There are people who still believe it's behavioral, when it's more like the level of cognition just below behavior and action.

In fact, it tends to impact every part of one's life and tends to have a more severe impact than the majority of mental disorders treated on an outpatient basis. One of the leading researchers on ADHD describes it as "you can know what to do, but you can't always do what you know." If something makes it extremely difficult for you to focus on difficult or unpleasant or boring tasks, or even remember to do them, doesn't this impact your behavior? Others may perceive you as not caring about those things when the truth is they barely stick in your mind whether you want them to or not. It is not intentional, but treated as intentional.

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I just cannot really see how BPD would fit under the catagory of mood disorders, I don't see what is wrong with having it classified as a personality disorder.


Because the entire category of "personality disorder" is dodgy as hell and is treated as a junk category where people dumped are considered to be untreatable, non-compliant messes.



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24 Dec 2011, 8:27 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


This is dogma that has persisted since Freud's time and has barely been challenged. Both that they are not really treatable or curable and that they really are related to an individual's personality and not by any kind of neurological variations, although such variations have been observed in research, and genetic correlations have been observed.

Oh, and Girl, Interrupted is a movie based on an autobiographical book by a woman who was sent to an institution because she tried to kill herself and was diagnosed with BPD. When she was released, apparently she was considered to be "cured."



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24 Dec 2011, 8:29 pm

marshall wrote:
No you're fine. I see where you're coming from. I just doubt whether things like mood/personality disorders really fit so neatly into categories. It's mainly that I don't like the idea of writing someone off as a lost cause beyond help which seems to be what category of "personality disorder" is used for. It's not that people with BPD are innocent, they definitely aren't, but it makes more sense to me for psychologists to focus on what's going on inside the person and look for ways to relieve it rather than just focusing on negative behavior.


^^^^^

I am glad other people are saying this.

I actually had a lot of trouble with the "do you think BPD is a mood disorder or a form of bipolar?" because it didn't fit neatly, but I thought it fit better as a mood disorder than as a personality disorder, as I find it difficult to accept the latter category is scientifically valid.