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Calling people on contradictions

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conan
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08 Feb 2012, 9:42 pm

i don't view changing opinions as contradictions. To be able to change your opinion is not a bad thing. to be aware you are changing it and why is even better. it is the essence of open mindedness

for procedural or factual things i can understand it could be annoying but in most cases i assume the situation is more nuanced than i realise and just try to take that on board. I don't interact with many people who seem to contradict themselves but most of the people i interact with at the moment are scientists and know far more about the subjects we talk about.

I can see how what are clearly obvious contradictions can be annoying but i'm well aware my opinions are very much based in the present so i can accept if other people are the same.

I guess the least difficult way to approach it is as if you are genuinely confused and would like some clarification. of course their reaction will depend on the context and the nature of your relationship with them



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Deinonychus
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09 Feb 2012, 4:47 am

NicoleG wrote:
This why I cannot stand psych questionnaires like the ones put fourth within these forums, for instance:

"Do you like jumping over things?"

When? What kind of things? Tall things? Short things? Wide things? Dry or wet things? Does 'stepping over something', like a crack in the sidewalk, count as 'jumping over' the crack? What about when I mentally picture a telephone pole, tree, sign, person, or other vertical object as though it were placed across the street as I'm driving along and I lift my foot off the floorboard to 'jump' over it, does that count as jumping?

What if I do all these things as an obsessive-compulsive behavior, but because they are me scratching a compulsion then I don't necessarily enjoy the activity the way that I think the question is intending? Maybe I would enjoy it if it wasn't a compulsion, but because I have OCD I don't know.

What about when I enjoy balancing and walking on the parking lot barriers and curbs along the street? Does that count as jumping over the barriers?

And, yes, ALL OF THESE THOUGHTS went through my head for this ONE question.

In this case, what I do is to count the proportion of each possibility. For example, if there are three interpretations, each of these get an answer, let say 0 for no, 1 for yes, and any number between if it's only a probability. Then take the three number, and compute the weighted sum of these three. For example :
- first interpretation, is about 30% of the meaning, and has an answer of 0.3 (probably not)
- second interpretation, is about 10%, and has an answer of 1 (yes)
- third interpretation, is about 60%, and has an answer of 0.7

The answer is 30% * 0.3 + 10% * 1 + 60% * 0.7 = 0.09 + 0.1 + 0.42 = 0.61, so the answer is maybe or likely, but not very likely. If you have to answer by yes or no, the answer is "yes", whatever that means.

Note : I don't pop out the calc, I evaluate this roughly. :lol:



League_Girl
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09 Feb 2012, 5:22 am

Here may be an example of a contradiction:


My boss moves me to another floor. Instead of working on the 4th floor, I am now working on the main floor. He shows me on the first day what I am to be doing. I do exactly what I am supposed to do. But over time my boss starts to lecture me about not doing certain things. He never told me on the first day I had those to do too. He shows me what I am also supposed to be doing. Now if I was unaware of that I took things literal and I don't always read between the lines, I would have thought he was adding to my work and keeps changing my job. I may have thought he was contradicting himself and keep getting upset because he kept changing my duties by adding more to it. But it's not a contradiction because I am not reading between the lines and I am taking all his instructions literal by doing exactly what he says. So he has to keep spelling things out to me. Telling me "just do what you think needs to be done" doesn't help me when I ask "what else is my job I don't know about?" I mean I have all these questions going on in my head. Do I wash the windows, do I wipe the photo frames, do I wipe the tables in the coffee area, do I wipe the counter tops in the coffee area, do I wipe the glass frame where they sell the food, do I wipe the glass door on the fridge where they sell drinks, Do I clean the furniture, do I clean the elevator rugs, do I wash the glass on the doors, do I wipe all the walls in the lobby, do I need to wipe the baby buggies the daycare keeps out in the hall, do I need to sweep the security area, etc.


It's as if I am lazy but I don't know what I am supposed to be doing if I am not told everything. Then I have to try really hard to remember the new duties my boss has given me because it's hard to remember to do them when it's not in my routine. Darn it I just remembered I forgot to wipe coffee spills off the coffee table. I lost count how many times my boss has pointed out my errors.



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Deinonychus
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09 Feb 2012, 9:12 am

Make a list of things to do :wink:



Jayo
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10 Feb 2012, 3:08 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Do I wash the windows, do I wipe the photo frames, do I wipe the tables in the coffee area, do I wipe the counter tops in the coffee area, do I wipe the glass frame where they sell the food, do I wipe the glass door on the fridge where they sell drinks, Do I clean the furniture, do I clean the elevator rugs, do I wash the glass on the doors, do I wipe all the walls in the lobby, do I need to wipe the baby buggies the daycare keeps out in the hall, do I need to sweep the security area, etc.


It's as if I am lazy but I don't know what I am supposed to be doing if I am not told everything. Then I have to try really hard to remember the new duties my boss has given me because it's hard to remember to do them when it's not in my routine. Darn it I just remembered I forgot to wipe coffee spills off the coffee table. I lost count how many times my boss has pointed out my errors.


Typically, janitorial jobs like the one you describe come with a checklist. I have been in so many buildings that contain a checksheet on a wall file-holder or posted up or whatever, which tells you everything that must be cleaned or maintained. I worked in a job like that in my youth and they had a checklist so I was able to know what was expected of me. What WAS challenging, however, was doing appropriate activities in context e.g. if someone was occupying the space I wanted to get at, but other tasks could be done in the meantime - that struck me as a contradiction in expectations, until I figured it out through trial and error.



League_Girl
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10 Feb 2012, 3:44 pm

Jayo wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Do I wash the windows, do I wipe the photo frames, do I wipe the tables in the coffee area, do I wipe the counter tops in the coffee area, do I wipe the glass frame where they sell the food, do I wipe the glass door on the fridge where they sell drinks, Do I clean the furniture, do I clean the elevator rugs, do I wash the glass on the doors, do I wipe all the walls in the lobby, do I need to wipe the baby buggies the daycare keeps out in the hall, do I need to sweep the security area, etc.


It's as if I am lazy but I don't know what I am supposed to be doing if I am not told everything. Then I have to try really hard to remember the new duties my boss has given me because it's hard to remember to do them when it's not in my routine. Darn it I just remembered I forgot to wipe coffee spills off the coffee table. I lost count how many times my boss has pointed out my errors.


Typically, janitorial jobs like the one you describe come with a checklist. I have been in so many buildings that contain a checksheet on a wall file-holder or posted up or whatever, which tells you everything that must be cleaned or maintained. I worked in a job like that in my youth and they had a checklist so I was able to know what was expected of me. What WAS challenging, however, was doing appropriate activities in context e.g. if someone was occupying the space I wanted to get at, but other tasks could be done in the meantime - that struck me as a contradiction in expectations, until I figured it out through trial and error.



I have a schedule with me but it's not really a check list. But it's all vague so I was shown what I need to do and I do that. But my boss says he can't tell me every little thing and then he told me he likes his workers to figure out what they should do. My mind doesn't work that way. Maybe my job is just different than the other jobs.



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Deinonychus
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10 Feb 2012, 4:18 pm

Well if your boss is not able to accept that he must say what he wants, you can still ask other people around what they think could be useful to do. You can do what you know you must do first, and with the remaining time, do what people "vote" for.