Cultural Aspergers Hypothesis

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Well, sensory issues probably will manifest no matter what the social environment someone is raised would be, but they may be altered by the physical environment and what sensory levels are present in early childhood, and the social impairments and special interests may manifest differently in different social environments.

If the "NT vermin" thought the same, autism wouldn't exist anymore either. I don't know any NT who wants to deliberatly destroy what's different; they just lack understanding, but I don't see it as a reason for wanting to get rid of them.

I think that in a theoretical all-autistic society just the low-functioning would be diagnosed. The reason why the issues of people with high-functioning forms of autism are in fact issues is because nobody else has them, so accomodations are not a default of society. If the majority of people had high-functioning autism, they would still meet the criteria for it in this reality but in that reality there would be no criteria because nobody would see it as a problem and there would be accomodations such as no neon lights and annoying music in supermarkets.

If 98% of the population could run up to 120 km/h with little energy expense, cars probably wouldn't have been invented. In this case, the remaining 2% who could run at normal speed with normal energy expense would be disabled, and lacking accomodations. This doesn't mean that they (us) universally are.
Sorry for the contorted metaphore but I'm so proud of having thought it so I'm gonna post it

Oh and even if all of this works theoretically, where I live now there is a much more "autistic" mentality than where I come from, but autism is way more diagnosed.

Sorry. Would you like some more coffee? Or is it already too late?

The biggest problem with society is the importance placed upon IQ ratings. The problem with IQ tests is that they only look for and measure one type of intelligence. Thus, if you don't have or use that type, you are looked upon as a 'failure' or 'less than.' To be fair, there needs to be not only different types of IQ measurements, but different types of IQ measurements for different cultures. It's fair to say that someone plucked out of the Brazilian rain forest and dropped into a modern European or American city would have difficulty understanding things and surviving. Conversely, someone from a modern city dropped into the rain forest would also have difficulty understanding their surroundings and surviving. Is one less or more intelligent than the other???

Each person in their respective environment would need to develop skills specific to that environment. While the person from the rain forest would not be computer savvy, the city dweller would not understand the various plants and their uses for food & medicine. Thus measuring one by the other's 'standards' would produce unsatisfactory results.

The same can be said for Apies/Autistics measured by some sort of NT standard, or even vice versa. Even within the NT community, people differ. Thus someone artistic may fail at technical tests, while someone technical may fail at artistic tests. The problem with today's society is the reliance on "one size fits all" IQ tests, because one size does not fit all.

So Apsergers may indeed manifest differently, and/or be reacted to differently in different cultures where the social norms are different. For example, someone with Aspergers may be thought of as a 'medicine man' or 'Shaman' in a more tribal culture, while that same person may be persecuted as a 'witch' or 'heretic' in a cosmopolitan society. Different perspectives…

You're mistaking realism for defeatism.

You may have misunderstood this, "The unfortunate thing is that reality eventually forces me to abandon ideals that just aren't going to happen, whether or not they're based on firm premises." to mean that I must abandon all good ideas eventually. That's not the case. For every idea I do abandon, there are many others I do not. Just because I might give up on an idea because I don't believe it's going to work, or it's just not worth the effort, doesn't mean I'm fatalistic. I'm just realistic enough to quit wasting time on those that aren't working, and move on to others that do. That's being realistic, not pessimistic.

I never said the world can't be changed. Changing the world though, takes a great deal of effort, time, and a very high level of ability to influence others, which itself happens to be a sophisticated social skill Autism happens to mess with.

AS began to be widely accepted twenty odd years ago. Twenty years later, it is still widely misunderstood by society. At the rate we're going, it's going to be a pretty long time (probably several lifetimes) before society as a whole really understands it, if they ever do.

Efforts by Aspies to change are hampered by their own social styles differing not only so much from non-aspies, but also differing widely from each others styles. Present reality must become part of any equations used to construct new realities, else the equation will never result in anything that actually works. Deconstruction of present realities is only possible if the present construction of it is accounted for. If we simply tear apart what exists carelessly, without any consideration for how it's put together and operates presently, complete chaos would result. We have to remember that this is not a simple physical structure we're talking about. It's a living, breathing organism made up of billions of human beings, each with unique perspectives and free will. Every one of them has their own idea of what a perfect world looks like.

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." ~ Henry David Thoreau

"It is when things are most difficult that we SHOULD dare, else nothing will ever change." ~ MrXxx

Perhaps you missed that I said there is nothing wrong with thinking along lines Ganandox is contemplating. One must make one's ideas work in the real world. That's a fact no one has ever been able to escape.



@Ganandox: Some of what you're suggesting seems to make sense to me at first, but some doesn't when reality as I know it is applied.

There is also an issue of perspective. Some of what you've suggested sounds one way to me, but but you've explained that you meant something else.

Now I"m at the point where some of what you're saying appears contradictory to me. Maybe it isn't, and it's just a case of my not clearly understanding your points.

Whatever the reason is it appears as it does to me, at this point, feels to me like we aren't understanding each other, and I'm running out of time to deal and come to terms with it. Each time I think I'm getting one your points, it seems the point either changes, or your way of thinking and explaining them doesn't work for me and how I need it to be explained.

I have no idea now whether I've understood your ideas now, so to debate them any further seems kind of pointless.

Whatever you do, don't stop thinking about such complex problems. That's a great thing to see in someone your age (or any age for that matter, but especially at your age). Just remember that ideas, no matter how small or how great, are nothing but ideas until they can be made to work in the real world.

@rdos: Who's being hostile? Disagreement and debate isn't the same as hostility. I don't see what you're seeing I guess. Something I said?

Good start!


Sort of like having a genetic predisposition that does not manifest unless certain environmental conditions are met?


Which cultures might specifically have more ASD "neurologies"?


It would be fair to point out that even if a person is more generally intelligent, an abusive or repressive upbringing might delay or completely inhibit a person's ability to assimilate is spite of his or her ASD.


It's also fair to point out that ASD and intelligence do not correlate.


More likely that certain facets of ASD would be ignored in one country more than another, or given more attention in one country than another.


Assuming that those for whom ASD manifests in a socially crippling way do not place too severe a burden on those whho can cope with their ASD.

...

Interesting assumptions ... Are they testable; and if so, how?

I'm considering the more specific assumption (mine, btw) that having a socially maladaptive parent might cause a child's ASD to manifest more severely then would a similar child with socially adaptive parents. I've noticed that "lots" of Aspies seem to have had at least one hostile maladaptive parent or step-parent, or to have been raised by a single parent - no causal connection, but there seems to be a high degree of correlation.

I wonder if some of us might have been more able to socialize - and at an earlier age - had we not been raised by addicts, alcoholics, bullies, or child abusers.

I always thought the massive growth in inequality, political disparity and lack of government accountability in international war was our biggest problem.

Wait, strike that, reverse it.



This doesn't happen, it's equal across all cultures.

Your general assumption that a lot of autistic issues go away when there's no NTs around is nonsense, have you actually seen autistics interact with each other? they don't "speak the same langauge", they're basically the same as when they talk to NTs.

I'd opt for entirely neurological. Otherwise how could one nurtured in the same environment, say in a supportive household, and have siblings that are non autistic.

And I'd not think one could reproduce social imagination impairments by an abusive environment or via living in radically different cultures. You'd have to lock junior away in a closet at birth to develop an impairment from reading people.

An American nonautistic could travel to China and still communicate nonverbally there if you had to. You could get the gist of things through reading body language, voice intonation, etc....... The nonverbal is universal.

Ok then, explain this to me: Why is there sometimes pairs of identical twins were one is autistic and one is not?

I'll stab it with In Utero differences, a variation in development, and even identical twins don't have or share the same fingerprints.

Is this cause environmental? Very well could be, but my point is addressing influences outside the womb, ergo 'cultural.'

Redacted

Last edited by nat4200 on 21 Apr 2012, 1:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

They share the same uterus.

Anyway, how does you arguement with one autistic child and one NT disprove my hypothesis? If anything it supports it.

I'm guessing English isn't the first language here, and so we don't have to develop many posts on any misunderstandings, in a few sentences, what is your exact theory?

That diagnostic patterns are influenced by both cultural and the severity of the autism, and the severity of autism is partly dependent on culture.

I admit that the part with the IQ was mainly a jab at certain studies suggesting that even the average IQ of those with AS was below average.

Are there?

60% chance for both to be autistic. More than enough to show a very strong genetic link, but obviously other factors are coming into play.

I wouldn't assume that identical twins have the same in womb experience. Birth weights are different for instance.

Jason.