autism - extreme male brain

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I often feel like a male with PMS. Definitely not ultra-male.

23 participants is ridiculous.

Yea, I agree that what he and others describe as AS and autism often comes with characteristics that could be seen as extremely male, but that autism manifests in different ways.

SBC does talk about "extreme female brain" as well but says it's schizophrenia, when a lot of women on the spectrum have the ratio he says goes along with it.

i was told repeatedly that i dont act like a woman and should've been born a boy.
when someone brought her baby to work to show off, all the women left their computer and chased her around, making faces at the little one and singing and fighting over the privelige to hold him and rock him. i stayed behind my computer, with the men. i dont even like babies. i like animals better.
i learned self defense and loved it and punched punching bags with a strength that made the guys in the room stare at me. i hit harder than some of the guys and i'm five two, a hundred four pounds at the time, but then i was younger then.
i dont care much for my appearance.
maybe that's why we get rage attacks, too much totesteron. i've read it somewhere on the net.

Since hormonal influence plays a role in brain development; it makes sense that it could be associated with both conditions, however genetics, and many other environmental influences have been associated as well, with both conditions.


Cohen suggests in his extreme female brain theory that the higher ratios that he believes are associated with schizophrenia, can be attributed to traits like extreme empathy, schizotypal type thinking, and personification of objects in one's environment.

In the informal surveys that have been done on this site, people report strongly for personification of inanimate objects in their environment as well as high to very high on schizotypal type thinking. However those same individuals aren't reporting visual hallucinations or auditory hallucinations.



The line between schizophrenia and autism may be greater among some individuals than others

While it's not talked about much in the US, the ICD10 lists a psychotic break from reality in young adulthood as reported in some cases of Aspergers.



Aspergers is still statistically identified in the population in the US at about 5 in every 10,000 individuals. It makes it tough to find subjects to study who have Aspergers.

The UK leads countries in identifying Aspergers among it's citizens; but still, the 23 participants with Aspergers in Cohen's study, is a low number compared to the available particpants who had Autism Disorder. If he could have found 80 individuals with Aspergers to study, he would have likely measured the results.



I was interested in this when I first got here and did a very informal poll on it. But the results were about 50/50 for individuals that had a noticeably shorter index finger on the right hand.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt144552.html

However, from other surveys on this site, the participation of females on this site, are close to the same for males. This site is reflective only of individuals that actually post. The overwhelming majority of people that visit the site don't post. 20 to 40 posting as opposed to around 1500 online at any one time.

One's inclination to post is both reflective of overall verbal intelligence, and willingness to engage in social interaction.

In some of the social areas of this site, written communication is not a great deal different than what one would find anywhere else.


It's highly unlikely than any online autism community, of individuals that actually post, is reflective of the actual individuals with autism/aspergers dispersed widely in the general population.


There is the same issue with the Aspie Quiz; there is close to the same number of females that respond to that quiz as there are males. But there are biases as to whom will voluntarily respond to anything online.

Filling out a 150 question online quiz, is not reflective of what any group in the general population would participate in without significant motivation, or reward. A major source is the online autistic communities, that already consist of close to a one to one ratio of male to female posting participation.

I saw a news report last night that the average attention span of the American public now is 2.5 milliseconds. Highly unlikey many would read my post here, even if I found a way to make it incredibly entertaining. The same applies to a 150 question online quiz.

It's interesting though; it is objective evidence that culture/technology, is changing the cognitive abilities related to social communication, in effect, re-wiring the brain within one generation. An interesting, social experiment, that most of us are a part of whether we realize it or not.


An additional problem with Cohen's research was that my understanding is that only 1 out of 23 participants in his study with Aspergers was female.

It's an amazingly low number considering that the National Autistic Society in the UK, recruited the individuals for the study. And it goes to show just how rare Aspergers or even autism is identified in the general population in females. Only 10 out of 72 in the entire study were females.


His study over represents the clinical understanding of the ratio of autism of about 4 to 1 males; while online autistic communities of those whom actually post, present a polar opposite with a much greater representation of females than males, per the data derived from the clinical environment.

Given this, in his study, there could have been bias, as far as whom wanted to participate, whom did not want to participate, or who was available to participate.



A random scan of the general population for ASD along with a measurement of 2d/4d ratio would be a better indicator, like the one done in South Korean schools, as well as to find out the actual incidence of ASD's in females vs males.

In the South Korean study the incidence of ASD was 2.5 male to 1 female in the general school population. 55,000 children were studied. In special education classes the ratio of males to females was 5 to 1. Intellectual disability among males was cited as an associated factor among these males.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=144161



The statistics of 1 in 110 in the US, is provided almost entirely from classes for the developmentally delayed. A similiar study to the Korean one is planned for the US, to include adults as well as children.

A study in England provided a 1 percent number for adults in the general population, however, that method was biased to measuring only individuals with higher functioning autism.

The study planned for the US appears to be the most comprehensive one attempted to date. It may provide the most accurate representation of ASD's in the entire general population.



In understanding how limited Cohen was in accessing what may be the actual demographic of ASD's in the general population, very little may be understood about Aspergers and 2d/4d ratio.

However, among individuals with autism with developmental disabilities in the school environment, the evidence he has may be close to accurate, because the demographic he studied was more reflective of this demographic.

And, there are other studies that replicate this finding. Interestingly too, some of these studies are associated with prenatal testosterone exposure, brain lateralization, function of language, and intellectual disability.



There appears to be a great deal more potential impact to the prenatal environment by hormonal influence, than what makes a systemizing or empathizing brain.

Cohen's Digit ratio study, his AQ score correlations, and his "extreme male brain theory" were a starting point for more advanced studies, that have continued since that study in 2001.



To me, all these facts show the separation that exists between online communities for autistic individuals, and what is evidenced as autism across countries.

The new demographic study in the US, is crucial to providing a better understanding between the divide of research that focuses on autism disorder, vs almost anything associated with higher functioning autism



I imagine part of the reason that researcher Michelle Dawson, and her autistic associates, has success in her research with Aspergers, is that she has Aspergers and is more highly motivated to seek out and find individuals with Aspergers in her research, than some of her counterparts. Even in a relatively smaller country like Canada.

Classes for Autistic individuals for the developmentally delayed, are a captive audience, that is much easier for researchers to access subjects from. Particularly in the US, where we don't have Universal health care, and appropriate access to diagnosis, for those whom can't afford private insurance.



Maybe this will change with expanded health care, and better demographic measurements of the population, for the future. Advantages other countries currently have, particularly in regard to Aspergers syndrome. At this point, females with Aspergers have an extreme disadvantage in the US. Relatively unidentified and not understood, anywhere but in online autistic communities.