Autism vs. NVLD

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I'm not under the impression that this is implying that people with autism feel any less than anyone else, but have an atypical approach to the realm of feeling. So I think that is a double entendre based on your personal grievances.

O_o

You quoted this from somewhere didn't you?

"Aspies, on the other hand, do not feel the same range of emotions. "

I've seen this description before, despite what you think it's a widely accepted view by the people in charge about people with AS.

I agree that NV-LD exists to make sense of the PIQ-VIQ 1 standard deviation or above difference. It is perhaps the only reason it hasn't been tossed in favour of AS, because it presents itself as a difference in cognitive style, thus potential problems in the work/learning environment can be better accommodated for when one knows.

I think academically speaking psychologists perhaps create differences when there are none due to how scholarship/published work and tenure are in tandem for professors and their career. There definitely needs to be some consensus. I don't think it should be thrown out because learning disabilities can be correlated with behaviour as evidenced with the AS NVLD split.

I was told that nv-ld nos was a junk diagnosis because no one knew what it was and thus it would be harder to receive assistance. It is to me a cognitive style, a quirk really, that signals a possibility that someone has ASD, simply because it is so rarely diagnosed. That's how I found out about Asperger's.. through the profile NV-LD. If it becomes something pervasive that impairs one's functioning, then seeing a specialist in autism is perhaps in your best interest. This was the case for me. The Weschler Adult Intelligence scales, when taken into consideration with several other tests, paired with the behaviour/sensory components of ASD, can make a strong case that an individual with NV-LD also has autism.

I have NV-LD diagnosed and AS so I'm on the fence. I think NV-LD is important because it shows a cognitive difference even among people on the spectrum, based on their Weschler IQ profile, signaling a difference in learning ability and learning strengths. Hence we're not all Temple Grandins.

Well, when you use the cognitive/affective model of empathy and feeling, if having a hard time intuitive grasping the feelings of others or assay your personal feelings in relation to others then I would go so far as to say that the range of how you feel is qualitatively much different than the norm.

Where this was originally quoted from is being used out of context too dare I say. I was trying to showcase a way to think about the differences between NV-LD and Asperger's in terms of affective and cognitive empathy wherein according to the conceptual model of NV-LD, emotion is communicated/intuited the same as NTs save for the non-verbal communication aspect, a quirk.

"if having a hard time intuitive grasping the feelings of others or assay your personal feelings in relation to others then I would go so far as to say that the range of how you feel is qualitatively much different than the norm."

Could be the same range with shifted stimuli. Can't tell. My hunch about NTs is a lot of what they claim to feel aren't emotions but call-response triggers that they map to words for emotions. But then you'd say the same about bees or mice or us, it's a philosophical Ouroboros.

Yes, my feelings on all of this stem largely from the scientific point of view, not in real-life application of treatment. I agree that many with HFA as older children and adults don't look different than those with AS. The speech delay in early childhood has been eliminated. So, from a treatment outlook, I understand why similar symptoms but different labels shouldn't matter. I'm mostly concerned from a neuroscientific point of view, because the data out there is muddled and needs to be examined more.

The only real-life application with the AS/NVLD issue here that IS often overlooked is what happened with me growing up. I went undiagnosed with everything until my late teens, largely in part because none of these problems were known about when I was a kid. So, I never received help for an obvious NVLD in school, because my AS splinter skills/talents greatly overshadowed my difficulties. I was seen as "gifted," so since I always made good grades in math due to overcompensation from areas I'm good at (like memorizing how to do different problems), I fell through the cracks. Schools are quick to identify dyslexia and other reading/writing/language learning disabilities, but they were baffled when, as a preschooler, I could read at a high level and had a prodigious memory but couldn't hop on one foot or cut with scissors or tie my shoes.

My mathematical and visual-spatial weaknesses have always been a source of low self-esteem, and I think a lot of the reason is because I'm supposedly "gifted" in many areas but still have trouble with elementary concepts like telling my right from my left and understanding percentages for money. It's often embarrassing, because people don't understand why a college graduate can't tie a knot or drive a car or cut evenly with a right-handed paper cutter. So, I often have to hide just how disabled I am in certain visual-spatial areas of life that neurotypicals take for granted.

Question: How are PIQ and VIQ calculated? Can someone have superior visual-spacial skills, even when compared to verbal skills, yet still have a higher VIQ than PIQ?

It really depends. Most likely, if a person has superior visual-spatial abilities, they would have a higher PIQ, but it's tricky to predict in those of us with neuropsych differences. The FSIQ is a combination of the PIQ and VIQ scores, and this is what most people refer to as "their IQ." But FSIQ isn't really the best determinant, because the scores can be all over the place.

The WAIS currently has four subcategories, two of which make up the PIQ score and two of which make up the VIQ score. And within those subcategories (if you take the full WAIS), there are many different test sections. The two PIQ categories are perceptual organization (block design is most famous task) and processing speed (symbol coding). For VIQ, there are the vocabulary (plus common knowledge of facts) and working memory (digit span is most famous) subcategories.

Perceptual organization is what I think of as visual-spatial skills, and it is what I did the most poorly on. While my VIQ is 17 points higher than my PIQ, because I have terrible working memory and extremely fast processing speed, my scores here aren't really the best to show NVLD. But if you compare my perceptual organization subscore with my vocabulary subscore, it becomes very obvious. My vocabulary score was 140, which is very high. My perceptual organization score was 105, which is in the average range. And within my visual-spatial abilities, I am able to do more when given unlimited time. Block design is timed, and I got 50th percentile on that. But I scored in the 90th percentile for matrices, which is highly visual-spatial but is untimed on the WAIS. So, I have been able to survive calculus and organic chemistry with a "C"-level knowledge due to teaching myself VERY slowly.

Um, I have poor processing speed and working memory, but good vocab and perceptual organization. I don't know the exact subtext scores, but my FSIQ is 130.

My VIQ was in the superior range and my PIQ landed in the average range. I scored Superior on the Block Design test. Anything that is timed I do poorly on in the spatial-visual because I have low working memory and very fast processing speed like OldDuckNash99 above me. My PIQ was originally listed as higher because of my fast processing speed, but when compared with other tests it was noted I had difficulty switching tasks, bringing it into the average range from the high average range it was in before.

I am under the impression that NV-LD isn't a hallmark of sub-standard intelligence/processing in any particular area of IQ, but an imbalance. What it is speaking to is that your brain is compensating in some way. Everyone has latent talent and then there is NV-LD, one standard deviation divide. I use my VIQ in many ways to compensate for my learning deficits in PIQ, including my poor working memory. I don't think the WAIS takes into consideration coping strategies developed by the person with NV-LD, which is fine as it helps draw closer conclusions on the nature of the academic challenges faced by the individual I would say. Actual ability is often times higher than what standardized testing shows.

One of the tests that absolutely mortified me was the inability to compose a simple essay while being timed, something I know how to do. I sometimes think there is an overburden of knowledge in the verbal realm (VIQ) and an inability to sort it at the same level of processing in the working memory (PIQ). My score for this test was below average even though my ability is much higher.

Ability, critical/compensatory/coping skills, and talent undeniably = FSIQ (figuratively speaking) - not just standardized verbal/spatial talent and ability alone. What a standardized test does not always show are these holistic mechanisms an individual employs to make up for deficits in areas they are not good at mentally. This usually is a sign of intelligence and critical thinking. One of the disclaimers the psychologist put on my evaluation is that FSIQ isn't the supreme measure of ability but merely a snapshot. What the FSIQ should show is how your brain interacts with itself. Superior, high average, average, below average - these are more important than the actual quantitative # number.

Many people on the spectrum who are higher functioning are above average intelligence because

Like what.

I think its different aspects of the same thing.

I would guess, that if you are evaluating a person, you have to think if a ASD diagnosis, is more appropriate. It doesn't mean they are different things.

I once read that around 80% of People with Asperger's-Syndrome have NVLD and 30% of HFAs.
So it's not exactly the same thing, I'm HFA and I don't have NVLD, but many autistics do, espessially Asperger's.

NVLD is just a visual-spatial learning disability for me. I think that I have this profile. It helps in scholastic area, but may be problematic in occupational area, because i am like a "machine" to school learning. I have good handwriting and it is a pleasure for me.

Severe dyssemia (nonverbal communication impairment) is the first symptom of autism, not of learning problems. Other social symptoms are failures in interpersonal relationships (especially with peers) and deficits in reciprocity (limited, idiosyncratized social needs). There is also characteristic pattern of interests, which tends to be "obsessive", atypical, often not so practical and somewhat restricted or stereotypical. Strange rituals, customs, routines are also not uncommon. There is also tendency to autostimulating behaviors, atypical playing with objects, hyperactivity and hyperkinetic behaviors, but it does not exclude depressive symptoms and problems with concentration or attention. Sensory problems are also common.

If someone has NVLD profile, it does not exclude having ASD. ASD is not about learning style or neurocognitive profile. It is social, emotional and behavioral developmental disability. It makes someone "odd" and socially inept, obsessive.

NVLD is an understatement. Autism may be also due to "NVLD". I have "manic" interests. Nonverbal communication may look "not natural" for me. I do not have dyscalculia, problems with maps, clocks etc. I may have difficulties in organizational, planning and executive area. It may be also due to obsessiveness and SCT.

Locked due to necro posting.