Advantages & Disadvantages of getting formally diagnosed

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Thanks. I read that thread, but obviously not closely enough.

You are absolutely correct. Those organisations aren't for Aspies, they are raising money to find a cure for classic autism. Though, I don't agree with most of their philosophies, low-functioning autism is very different than AS. There doesn't need to be a cure for AS, nor should there be. A cure for low-functioning autism? Hmmm...depends on the situation.

Oh, and most of the parents and families that support those organisations aren't unaccepting, they want to help their children.

I am afraid you are mistaken, Bec. Where did you find that Asperger kids were excluded from these treatments?

Something that parents refuse to realize:

No matter what level of autism we have, you cannot take the kid out of the Autism, and you cannot take the Autism out of the kid. Autism is part of who we are, it goes to our core.

Can you give us life skills? Yes. That is called teaching, not, intervention. "Intervention" is a BS word for prejudaced people who want to throw us in the dump, but want a kid that is "normal" so bad that they try to make the "imperfect" child they have be like the "sociable" child they want to have. This word makes them feel like heroes for tolerating us long enough to teach us something.

But look out. Because one day they are going to find out that their little success stories are still autistic. They have only learned shame for autism; and how to pretend or imitate NT behaviours. One day, the truth will emerge, as it did for Temple Grandin. She was taught that her autism was going away, and finally that it did go away, just because she stopped acting autistic for a time. That is like saying a homosexual is not gay anymore because he chooses celebacy, or gets a girlfriend. It is just plain dumb, and it is also destructive.

It is destructive because one day, those kids are going to realize that all those perserverences they were forbidden to explore were their special gifts, and all that time they wasted trying to learn NT social skills - is gone forever, and all those forbidden stims could have often helped to keep them from the deppression they slipped into; and all that, just trying to act "normal" to be loved. Just imagine the fallout.

Just imagine what the world would have missed, had we ABA-ed the genious gifts right out of Einstein.

Now, there are things in the programs we are talking of that are good. DAN has a lot of positive things about it. Like helping parents identify foods that could be wrecking their child's health, thus making neccissary living and learning all but impossible, and the gentle rehab and detox for those vulnerable auties who have been vaccine injured. But the problem with even these programs is that they point the finger at the autism itself as what is destructive. That is where they go wrong.

Black people get sickle-cell anemia. Does that mean we cure the world of blackness, so that we can eliminate sickle-cell? Of course not!! Anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between sickle-cell-anemia and blackness. Just because the 2 are often found in the same room does not mean we must throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.

1PeaceMaker, you are being prejudiced to NTs.

I agree that there is some stereotyping and possible paranoia in this thread, and it is unfair to assume that parents do not usually have their childrens' best interests at heart. We do not allow singling out for blanket criticism any social, religious ethnic or neurological group on this site - please be aware of this when making your argument folks.

Dunc

LOL

That isn't fair. I am NOT prejudaced against NTs. In fact I have a bunch of awsome NT friends. I am even married (happily) to a NT. It makes me upset to hear this from you. If there is anything I have said that is incorrect, correct me, and be specific.

I've got no problem with you pointing out when I am wrong, but a blanket statement like the one you just made makes me feel like I have been unfairly attacked. I have been attacked and abused, both physically and emotionally for years by some NTs for simple, innocent aspie behaviour so I know what I am talking about, okay?

I just reviewed what I wrote, and cannot find a single incident where I said that "all NT" do this or that. In fact, I have previously stated that some NTs are trustworthy and tolerant, but not enough for me to be safe as an aspie in this world.

Me pointing out the dangers and the prejudaces we face is not prejudace. It is common sense, and I do it so that other aspies can have a heads up about the dangers that they may possibly encounter. Plus I want to draw attention to the real problems that are out there. It is my hope that things will change as a result of people like me saying something.

I will not just sit down, shut up, and fit in. Sorry. (Well, okay, I am not sorry.)

Please be specific. I don't want to make trouble, I just want to know what, if anything that I have said is wrong.



I agree. I assume nothing. I also believe that when parents seek to change their child's behaviour, they should realize that they should be careful not to tread on their child's personhood. That is sacred ground. Too many NTs and Aspies have died because parents/and or society could not accept the way their child was born. Despite the fact those parents felt that they loved their children, those children felt unloved because their very personhood was rejected, in favor of someone they could never be.

In memory of those special people, I write this. We should let their tragedy teach us, so that we may avoid future pitfalls, and in doing so give meaning to their life and their death.



Cool. That is good. I don't have prejudace towards anyone.

You asked for specific examples of where you seem to be prejudice against NTs, or are advocating aspie supremacy. Here are two passages in which it seems like that's what you're suggesting:

This makes it sound like you are being threatening. "But look out" is like a warning of violence or pain to come.



First of all, learning NT skills is, in my opinion, not a waste of time. If autistics want to get along in this world which is run by NTs, then they are going to have to learn some of those things, not to change who they are, but just in order for them to be able to deal with society.

Second, I think it's rather harsh of you to suggest that parents will not love their autistic children unless they are "normal."

I agree. Learning NT skills did not change who I am. It's like learning another language if you want to get along in a different country. It sure makes life a lot easier when you have to deal with those who speak that language.
I am teaching NT skills to my 10yo Aspie son, too.

Now if I could only teach some social skills to my NT husband - somewhere along the line he seems to have missed that lesson... hahaha! Must be why we get along so well at home.

Civet;

Thank you for citing me, so I could clarify any statements that may have seemed provocative. I apreciate it.

Whoa, I just did a double-take. Aspie supremacy?? How did you read that into my posts!? That is just bewildering to me.

Are men better than women? Or vice-versa?

Okay, well when I said look out, I meant look out for mom and dad, their reaction will be one of upset when discovering that their children were never cured after all. You can't cure a child of what they are, neuroligically, as with autism, and I can only imagine the outrage and dissapointment of the parent who spent thousands of dollars, heartache, time, all in the race to defeat the characteristics that make the child who is.



It is a waste of time if you cannot learn them. And many would never even want to imitate them, if given the option.



I am having a problem with this, only because I am not sure if you and I are talking about the same things, here. If you mean stuff like please and thank you, etc, common politness and kindness, I agree. If you mean thinking in a non-literal format, making eye contact, blending in, hiding autistic tendencies, and basicly acting like we're not autistic, like it is our fault for being what we are, well, then I say THEY need to be a little more tolerant.



I am not suggesting that. My NT husband both loves and accepts our kids, although it is difficult for him to understand them sometimes.

It sounded to me like you were saying aspies are better than NTs, and if that is not the case, sorry for misinterpretting you.



But you don't know if you can't do it until you try, right?



I think it is a matter of meeting in the middle, sort of like a compromise. I am not suggesting aspies think in a non-literal format, as I do not think it's really possible to change your thinking process anyway, and attempting to do so woudl be silly. Saying "please" and "thank you" and greeting people, etc, are all things that I think aspies can learn to do. As far as eye contact goes, I think that really depends on the individual. If one is able to give eye contact without being overwhelmed or without losing bits of the conversation, then I see nothing wrong with attempting to learn the "rules" of eye contact. But if eye contact is very uncomfortable or distracting, I don't think it's necessary. As for autistic tendencies, I agree, NTs should be accepting of things like that. The thing is, there isn't much awareness of high-functioning autism or Asperger's. When people hear "autism" they think of Rain Man. I think if they understand the reasons for differences in behavior, they will probably be more accepting of those differences.



Ok, that's good to hear.

What did you mean by this statement:

I agree with this - particularly the last sentence. I believe education and raising awareness of the way we are and what we have to offer society is the most beneficial thing that we can do as people on the spectrum. Without this information, it is not surprising that autism is feared and misunderstood, and that well meaning but misguided individuals would seek to cure us rather than to accept and meet us half way in accommodating our differences and difficulties.

I do not think that attempting to learn the 'rules' is a bad thing - it is a useful survival skill for the reason I just mentioned. However I accept and agree with your view, 1PeaceMaker, that respect for who a person is is sacrosanct - and it is wrong to give any child, autistic or otherwise, the idea that it is wrong to be yourself - the basic rules of social interaction are something which I feel should be viewed in the same way we would view maths or reading rather than as a desirable goal in itself - it is easier to get by in the world if you try to learn enough to be able to fulfil your needs, as a life skill to help you to function more easily in a demanding environment.

Dunc

But, where did I give off that energy?



I have no problem with aspies who want to try, but I wasted years just trying to please NTs, and all I got for my troubles was well... I never can please them, no matter how hard I try.



Worse than silly.

Same here. Those aren't particularly NT skills, as far as I'm concerned.



Then we shouldn't be forced to do it to be accepted, as some aspies are.


My husband is still learning who I am. He seems to be prejudaced, although it is decreasing as he gets to know me. I have to work hard though, through stressful situations to make progress happen.

I hope you are right. At any rate, posts like mine are intended to be constructive, and instructive, to this end.



I meant just that. That is how it feels to an Aspie.
That is how it feels to a struggling gay boy. We share this thing in common.. if we just accept who we are, it is seen as a bad thing.

I once said to my husband, "even despite all the trouble I have been through for being the way I am, I am thankful for who I am, and given a choice, I would not choose to be anything else but how I am."

The response? Anger. He called me "selfish", and berated me ferociously. I can't tell you how hurtful this was to me at the time. I felt totally crushed. This is unfair. Had I said "Even despite all the trouble I have been through for you being NT the way you are, I am thankful for who you are, and given a choice, I would not choose for you anything else but how are." - he would never have exploded and lectured me for my sentamentalism. Rather, he would have been apreciative, and would have thanked me.

I have to agree with 1peacemaker. I have worked in an agency that was soppedly giving therapy to developmentally disabled people. That is teh first job I've ever quit (aside from moving). Some of what I saw was abusive, and all under the banner of the best intentions! When I realized that I was autistic and started getting loud about it and intervening on the behalf of the autistic clients (actually, they were called "consumers, now how nice is that?), my input was ignored and people grew cold to me. i was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, regarding various stims that I myself engage in.

THE MAIN GOAL of the therapy for the auties there was to have as normal an appearence as possible. *NOT* the happiness of the person, or their ability to find a job, or to utilize their talents. The idea was to have them masquerade as normal and not to offend intolerant people.

I am on another forum that consists mainly of NT parents wondering what in heck they can do with their autistic children. Almost all of them are seeking therapy, intervention, ANYTHING, to CURE their children. I hate to say this, but I think that most of them wish their children were normal and would love them better that way. Maybe you should go there and see for yourself. http://www.autisticsociety.org/autism-forums.html
It tends to have one pity party after another with lots of talk abotu therapy and idenitfying the causes so that, god forbid, one day there will be no more autistic chidlren. I am not talking only about low functioing autistics, the parents of aspie chidlren are just as upset.

For my part, I have been burned so often and so badly by my NT "friends" that I have all but given up on expectations of a deep friendship with most of them. My ex husband is my firend, I think....most of the others are, apparently, aquaintances. My mate is aspie and it is such a relief to finally be loved for what I am, not in spite of it.

Just because parents are genuinely attempting to improve the kids' lives doesn't mean they are doing the right thing. To draw an analogy, some parents still think it is OK to institutionalize their gay children in religion-based hospitals where doctors try to force the children to become heterosexual using "aversion therapy" (electric shock, induced vomiting, covert sensitization, shame aversion). While there's no question that heterosexual children are more accepted in society and have fewer socialization problems (and from the parent's perspective are more likely to go to heaven), that doesn't justify this treatment.

i don't think that parents of autistic children encourage them enough. This is why the autistic intelligence is going to waste.
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