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sharkattack
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25 May 2012, 10:23 am

jonny23 wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
It's two way street many NTs say very hurtful things and do we take it as a joke or take offense?

I know I have spent a lot of my life worrying and feeling guilty I don't see normal people worrying or questing their actions not matter how foul.


Again, just because someone else did it doesn't make it right. And if someone says something hurtful to you then you have every right to take offense.


Your right however the problem is we are not very good at this kind of thing.

I had a very long walk down a beach on my own yesterday.

The sun was beaming and I felt great after it.

Being able to spend time alone can be a great help.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 10:27 am

NicoleG wrote:
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do you want to be right or do you want to be happy.


That's very similar to a quote from Sean Barron in The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships. I don't have the book with me, so I'm paraphrasing, but he said he preferred the company of friends over the company of honesty.

I prefer having friends that can accept my level of honesty. If that means I have very few friends because what I seek is like finding unicorns in the wild, then I guess that is a choice I am making. Someone who doesn't fall into my friend category I might just decide in the moment how I want to handle a situation like this, and not be afraid to tell them their being a boob.


sharkattack wrote:
Your right however the problem is we are not very good at this kind of thing.

I had a very long walk down a beach on my own yesterday.

The sun was beaming and I felt great after it.

Being able to spend time alone can be a great help.


I agree with you both. It is very hard to do. I didn't even realize that I needed to for the first 30 something years of my life. But you can get better at it.

I as well choose friends that are not easily offended as I don't want to feel like I'm walking on egg shells all the time. When dealing with the public at large I find it helps to keep things polite and to the point.



NicoleG
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25 May 2012, 10:28 am

jonny23 wrote:
If you fall asleep at the wheel and crash into someones house you are still accountable even if you didn't meant to.


That's really not a good comparative analogy. It would only be good if you were aware that you had narcolepsy and still chose to get behind the wheel.

By your analogy, if I know that my emotional accounting system is borked, then I shouldn't interact with people ever, which yet again is putting ALL of the onus on me.



sharkattack
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25 May 2012, 10:42 am

NicoleG I am new to this forum and I am finding it very helpful.

Some people have said to me I am like a dog with a bone and I won't let things go.

Your posts in this thread are coming across like that.

I can understand what you mean as this is how my brain operates.

In a wider social situation we tend to miss the bigger picture.

The only helpful advice I can give you is do something you enjoy to help you bring your stress level down.

I am 38 and I am still learning how to deal with my own stress levels.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 10:43 am

NicoleG wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
If you fall asleep at the wheel and crash into someones house you are still accountable even if you didn't meant to.


That's really not a good comparative analogy. It would only be good if you were aware that you had narcolepsy and still chose to get behind the wheel.

By your analogy, if I know that my emotional accounting system is borked, then I shouldn't interact with people ever, which yet again is putting ALL of the onus on me.


Not at all. If you get behind the wheel with narcolepsy you kill people. Comments that are unintentionally rude are not likely to offend badly and are very unlikely to squish anyone. My analogy was to point out that you can be at fault without it being intentional. It's the difference between manslaughter and murder.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 10:45 am

I think this was a big part of my marital problems for many years. I was pondering how I could get in an argument, prove logicaly and factualy that I'm right and still we BOTH end up unhappy. When I decided my goal was for us to both be happy life got a lot easier.



NicoleG
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25 May 2012, 10:51 am

jonny23 wrote:
NicoleG wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
If you fall asleep at the wheel and crash into someones house you are still accountable even if you didn't meant to.


That's really not a good comparative analogy. It would only be good if you were aware that you had narcolepsy and still chose to get behind the wheel.

By your analogy, if I know that my emotional accounting system is borked, then I shouldn't interact with people ever, which yet again is putting ALL of the onus on me.


Not at all. If you get behind the wheel with narcolepsy you kill people. Comments that are unintentionally rude are not likely to offend badly and are very unlikely to squish anyone. My analogy was to point out that you can be at fault without it being intentional. It's the difference between manslaughter and murder.


Eh. I still see getting behind a wheel while being so tired that you run the risk of falling asleep to be a conscious decision, and therefore fault-bearing, but only because I was taught that a car is a deadly weapon and should be handled with care.

I guess this upsets me so much because someone getting hurt by words and not receiving and apology and amends is seen by some as just as bad as falling asleep in a car and causing an accident. It kind of goes back to me thinking I just need to pick friends that don't make such gross analogies.



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25 May 2012, 10:52 am

In my opinion, because we do have a disability, and it's difficult for us to understand how people communicate.

I know I offend people without wanting to. They're are not bad people, they didn't do anything to deserve it, and I know I wouldn't do it if I could interact better.

We are not some elite group to whom the Universe owes anything. We are just different, and it's difficult for people to understand the actions of a minority. I can't blame them.

To my (very few) friends, I just warn them: look, sometimes I'll say something that will sound rude. Please accept that it's a "thing" and, if possible, just point it out to me.

In my case, problem solved.



Last edited by mike_br on 25 May 2012, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

jonny23
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25 May 2012, 10:57 am

NicoleG wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
NicoleG wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
If you fall asleep at the wheel and crash into someones house you are still accountable even if you didn't meant to.


That's really not a good comparative analogy. It would only be good if you were aware that you had narcolepsy and still chose to get behind the wheel.

By your analogy, if I know that my emotional accounting system is borked, then I shouldn't interact with people ever, which yet again is putting ALL of the onus on me.


Not at all. If you get behind the wheel with narcolepsy you kill people. Comments that are unintentionally rude are not likely to offend badly and are very unlikely to squish anyone. My analogy was to point out that you can be at fault without it being intentional. It's the difference between manslaughter and murder.


Eh. I still see getting behind a wheel while being so tired that you run the risk of falling asleep to be a conscious decision, and therefore fault-bearing, but only because I was taught that a car is a deadly weapon and should be handled with care.

I guess this upsets me so much because someone getting hurt by words and not receiving and apology and amends is seen by some as just as bad as falling asleep in a car and causing an accident. It kind of goes back to me thinking I just need to pick friends that don't make such gross analogies.


You need to handle each with the appropriate amount of care. The point isn't that a car can kill. The point is if you do something you are responsible for that action. Sometime people get hurt even if you don't intend for them too.



NicoleG
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25 May 2012, 11:00 am

sharkattack wrote:
Your posts in this thread are coming across like that.


That's probably because the topic is an emotional thing for me, hence why I started the topic to begin with.

sharkattack wrote:
The only helpful advice I can give you is do something you enjoy to help you bring your stress level down.


My reason for posting the topic is in fact to work through my thoughts and emotions regarding it in order to bring my stress level down. This is something that has been bothering me quite significantly for the better part of a year. I very rarely actually start threads. Seeing how other people feel about it and why helps me to focus my own thoughts and feelings to where I can accept them and move on. My level of cognitive discord might abate if I use distraction as you suggest, but it isn't going to go away. That's not how my brain works, and I'd rather discuss this subject here in a forum where most people can at least understand my frustration regarding it and be somewhat sympathetic than try and talk to someone in person whose only advice is, "Get over it." That's not really helpful.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 11:03 am

I hope that I have indeed come across as being sympathetic and wanting to help because I do understand your frustration.



NicoleG
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25 May 2012, 11:15 am

sharkattack wrote:
As regards offending people I never feel sorry anymore.


My issue is that I do care, and I don't want to reach the point that you have reached of never saying sorry anymore. I don't want to become like that, yet I don't really want to have to let go of my standards either.

Rock, meet Hard Place.

Like Odysseus, I'm trying to decide how to steer my boat to avoid the most losses. I know it's kind of a lose-or-lose-more situation, and I'm probably more ranting at it in general than anything else. I don't wanna have to pick. *stomps feet in frustration*



sharkattack
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25 May 2012, 11:17 am

NicoleG wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
Your posts in this thread are coming across like that.


That's probably because the topic is an emotional thing for me, hence why I started the topic to begin with.

sharkattack wrote:
The only helpful advice I can give you is do something you enjoy to help you bring your stress level down.


My reason for posting the topic is in fact to work through my thoughts and emotions regarding it in order to bring my stress level down. This is something that has been bothering me quite significantly for the better part of a year. I very rarely actually start threads. Seeing how other people feel about it and why helps me to focus my own thoughts and feelings to where I can accept them and move on. My level of cognitive discord might abate if I use distraction as you suggest, but it isn't going to go away. That's not how my brain works, and I'd rather discuss this subject here in a forum where most people can at least understand my frustration regarding it and be somewhat sympathetic than try and talk to someone in person whose only advice is, "Get over it." That's not really helpful.


Maybe I did not post clearly enough.

I am not saying GET OVER IT.

I am just saying my condition cases me stress.

Doing things that bring my stress level down does not help the route cause but it does help my stress.

I do understand how you feel I feel the same way myself.

I can not make your problem go away nor can I make mine go away nobody can.

Doing something that brings your stress level down will make you feel better while you are doing it.



NicoleG
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25 May 2012, 11:18 am

jonny23 wrote:
I hope that I have indeed come across as being sympathetic and wanting to help because I do understand your frustration.


Everyone has, actually. :D

I'm just dealing with some growing pains.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 11:23 am

NicoleG wrote:
sharkattack wrote:
As regards offending people I never feel sorry anymore.


My issue is that I do care, and I don't want to reach the point that you have reached of never saying sorry anymore. I don't want to become like that, yet I don't really want to have to let go of my standards either.

Rock, meet Hard Place.

Like Odysseus, I'm trying to decide how to steer my boat to avoid the most losses. I know it's kind of a lose-or-lose-more situation, and I'm probably more ranting at it in general than anything else. I don't wanna have to pick. *stomps feet in frustration*


I don't think trying to make someone feel better should be against your standards if they where truly hurt by something you did. What is it that you think you'll loose? They will likely only think better of you, not less.



jonny23
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25 May 2012, 11:25 am

NicoleG wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
I hope that I have indeed come across as being sympathetic and wanting to help because I do understand your frustration.


Everyone has, actually. :D

I'm just dealing with some growing pains.


Ahh good. I do have a tendency to sound preachy. I often get confused if people are asking for help or sympathy.