I've cracked the body language code, folks!

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I don't know if I have AS or not, but I was certainly labelled and perceived as different as a kid, and very badly bullied because of it.

I certainly have witnessed behaviour where others, who were not labelled different and not the ones being hostile, might disapprove of the hostile person behaviour but wouldn't say/do anything because the hostile person might be nasty to them too. They weren't bad people, just perhaps not very brave. Being ostracized by lots of people is honestly truly horrible and I can understand why people might want to avoid it.

I actually had someone tell me about this once directly, I was 9, we were alone together and got talking for the first time. I remember this very vividly. She told me she liked me but was afraid to show it as she didn't want to be picked on by those who were being nasty to me. I explained I understood, these people had the capability to pretty horrible to people and were quite scary and I certainly wouldn't wish it on anyone else. We carried on to have a really good chat. It was the only time, we were never alone again, and she was never ever brave enough to be friendly to me in front of others.

This gave me a lot of insight into this sort of behaviour, but also meant I stayed rather lonely and sad because very few people were brave enough to befriend me and face ridicule themselves.

I accept that as humans we are all different, and there may be perfectly good neurological and genetic reasons why people find difference disturbing. I just wish, that as societys aiming at being civilised, we had a general rule, that regardless of how someone's differences make us feel, it is NEVER EVER ok to be horrible or hostile to someone because of this. I think we'd eventually do away with a lot of prejudice (and maybe even wars) if this rule was generally applied.

Yeah they dont like it when the shallowness is pointed out. Basically I see most (not all) NTs as just in it for themselves and to have a good time. They are fickle and jump on any popular bandwagon. I am more into doing the right thing in terms of my special interests human rights and saving the planet nothing else is important to me. It's funny how I am judged as rude when I don't follow silly social protocol such as saying please, thanks, small talk to make others feel included I just want to get to the point so i can keep doing what I have been put on earth to obsessively do.
Unfortunate when working with other people if I want to be taken seriously I need to play the social game. It does work even just doing basic stuff like pretending to care when u dont or not being too direct can help get u to achieve what you are trying to achieve. I used to get hung up on being authentically me in all situations that does breed hostility from others. Now I just pick my moments I be me more when alone and with close people. I play the game at work but still only just enough to fly under the radar I still challenge the status quo and act different than others. I've found you dont need to manipulate the situation to get by but it helps to try to be considerate even if it seems like a waste of time it goes a long way in the NT world.

Yes this thread is very hard to follow. It could be simplified.

I identify with much of this, especially in still challenging the status quo and struggling with feigning small talk.

However, I've always believed very much in saying "please" and "thank you" to show gratitude, so I don't understand why someone wouldn't comprehend that basic concept. I don't understand why you think that's "silly."

I'd also say that many NTs seem to have no problem "being themselves" with me if they don't like me. It seems like all the social niceties go out the window, like it's a free pass to treat me like crap.

For me the please and thanks is implied. Like saying hi I can see your there so why bother saying it. I not easily offended by others directness. I like it I find it refreshing. Sadly no one has ever told me they appreciate my directness. Also if I recognize I am wrong I am the first to admit it. People don't like admitting they are wrong.

I agree with directness not being appreciated, as well as with people not liking to hear that they were wrong, and I agree with no need to say hello sometimes if it's implied.

The "please" and "thank you" thing, however, is direct and specific. Someone has done something helpful for me, and I recognize this action, so I thank them. That's the one thing I don't get why you don't understand. Sure, I guess I don't have to thank them, and maybe they don't care, but to me it's always been a way to show gratitude. 'I understand you've done something for my benefit at my request, so thanks.'

Its not that i never say please or thankyou. I just prefer to reserve it for when it really matters - if i am asking someone a huge favour or someone has done something i really appreciate - then its warranted. Just people expect you to say it all the time eg; at the shops when you ask the attendent for something - i have been prompted multiple times to say please and thanks at the end. Seriously i am there to get things and they are working there - for me its implied in this instance and a waste of words.
I must say that i hardly ever get offended by others lack of please or thank-you and i find it over the top when every request has a please attached and a thank you at the end. Pass the salt - please, and thanks for passing the ketchup. Id rather be talkling about something more pertinent.

Another one is sorry - i am happy to say sorry if i genuinely stuffed up - but people say it all the time without meaning it. When i realise I am wrong I always tell the person affected. I find that others dont do the same - they try to pretend that it never happened.

It might get silly if everyone is saying please and thank you around a dinner table, yes. But I disagree with the shop thing. I've worked in retail, and when customers don't thank me, I feel it is a bit rude. Like they feel some sense of entitlement to be served, and have no appreciation. The thank you is also a way of ending the transaction and interaction. And I always do the same when I'm a customer. Although they're working there, and it's their job, the thank you is a way of showing gratitude for an easy transaction. There are many miserable or incompetent shop workers, so the thank you is almost a way of showing appreciation of them doing their job properly. If you haven't noticed, many people don't do their jobs properly, and there's no way of knowing what to expect until things actually go smoothly.

That said, I fully agree with apologies. I think many NTs, even when they know they were in the wrong, and even if they are truly sorry, seem to think it's best to just "not bring it up, as if it didn't happen," and that's supposed to be a way of everything going back to "normal." For me, if a person is truly sorry, it should be addressed and stated, not tiptoed around. If everything really is ok now, then why hide it? If it isn't openly addressed, I feel things can't yet go back to normal.

We agree on much, but the please-than you thing I can't fully see your view.

Maybe i am quite rude. I will have to think further on it.
The way i see it is that if there is something interesting to say to a shop keeper like something about the goods they have, basically not the usual stuff that everyone says then ill say it. If they are doing something great that i rarely see ill mention it, or if there is something that I dont like as a consumer ill give that feedback too. if i have something interesting to say - i would rather have that kind of conversation than the stock standard - expected conversation.
I have worked in retail as well and always am polite when I am working - basically i am being paid so I have to. When i am on the other side of the counter i just do it if it feels right. Sometimes i am in such a hurry that it doesnt occur to me - its just a functional transaction without the need for socialisation. I hate talking for the sake of it. (Except when I am being paid to make others feel welcome and comfortable).

Thanks for your comments - I like to be challenged and will take a look into it. Maybe my time and mental space is not so precious as to waste it on small pleasantries.

That's just it though: you don't have to play the social game; that's what I've been trying to tell you from Step 1. By using what comes to you naturally, you can pick up on very common patterns in their body language and responses. You don't need to play the social game to get ahead; just play your own, but use it to your advantage...or as I like to call it "supercharging your Autism"

Hey King,

can you clarify a few things for me:
- firstly you say that youve cracked the body language code - what do you mean by that - I know you alluded to patterns - but is is specifically body language you are referring to (ie non verbal language) or is it more than that?
- Also how do you hold down a job if you dont act at least a bit NT? I know my job requires much social interaction at a high level (about non superficial things) i would struggle if i didnt attempt to act like a social person. When they talk about the Kardashians in the lunch room sure I tune out, but i can't talk about sharks all day or it will drive everyone crazy. I feel that i have to do at least some of the social chit chat stuff to get to the good interesting stuff that I am really interested in. Without that I wouldn't be taken seriously and i would be considered rude. Note I am considered rude outside of work and I dont mind that is my free time and im busy doing my thing so social niceties are not necessary to survival then.
- Lucky for me my other job is about talking about sharks all day - so thats another way of supercharging autism.

I know of people that have positively *terrible* attitudes about autistic people. If an autistic person is making a lot of social mistakes and generally being "socially ret*d" (and they believe that one can be "socially ret*d" without being autistic), they claim it is beneficial to shun such people to teach them a lesson. When it is pointed out that straightup shunning (without ANY explanation) is cruel and doesn't tell the person anything, they come back with "I don't care, it's not my job to fix them. I just don't want anything to do with them." Such people are terrible people anyway.

Gladly.

First of all, my point is you don't need to necessarily pick up on the body language of individual people. Basically....their body language system isn't exactly the most complex thing in the world, and basically...it runs on patterns. If a lot of people don't like you, after a while you pick on patterns associated with their disapproval of you. You may then notice similar patterns in other people; that's what I'm talking about. It's basically picking up patterns...and that's something that our brains are well-built to pick up.

How do I hold down a job? Very simple really: I have a philosophy of aiming for excellence( or what I even like to refer to as my own interpretation of perfection); that philosophy I refer to as the "epitome of efficiency". It basically boils down to this: I keep my feet to the fire at all times, and I make sure whatever my objective is, I'm one of the best at it that you'll ever find.

Now, even thought I own my own business, I work at my day job as a cashier at a hardware store. Part of my routine again involves patterns, and figuring out what to offer, and who to offer it to based on different circumstances. As for interacting with people, I simply just have fun with them. I take the "Bill Murray" approach in a way to interacting with people. See, I'm a very difficult guy to offend, and I just have fun being myself; in many cases I even go a little over the top and act a bit wacky and zany at times.

Let me ask you: have you ever walked into a hardware store, and seen a guy acting like a cross between Jerry Lewis and a gameshow host? Yeah...well neither have most people. And you may be asking "but doesn't that confuse them in regards to how to deal with you?" Sure...but at the same time, as my mind works differently than theirs does, they'd be confused anyway.

However, by having fun and going a little over the top here and there, they can see I'm comfortable with my procedure, and in turn, so are they. If you're ok with it, they're more likely to be ok with it.

I never said all the customers would necessarily treat you well, but it certainly pleases the bosses to watch the experience, and often times you can even develop somewhat of a cult following by having fun with what you do. And I assure you: I've apparently developed cult followings at several of my jobs over the years. I even had somewhat of a fan club at a previous job...I'm not kidding.

And, from doing what I do best....at my previous job....I attracted the attention of my now-girlfriend, and we've been together 5 years this upcoming February

And, my area of interests happen to be toys, economics, and history. I really don't talk about it much with people unless they inquire with me about it; I figure there's no point in chatting with people about something if you know when it comes down to it they really don't care to hear it. So if my choices are to keep it to myself and quietly focus on it when I'm by myself, or blab about it to people who don't care, I'm gonna choose the former.

However, on a few occasions, I did manage to share some short chats with customers regarding my knowledge about economics and history. And apparently, my knowledge caught the attention of the Freemasons, and they invited me to join!

Now, in regards to social niceties...when I say "epitome of efficiency", I have that apply to me at all times. So even off the clock, I aim for refinement, and positive rapport when possible. In a way, you could even say I go overboard in certain ways that most people don't do. Just to give you an idea, part of how I talk to people now has in fact been influenced by Kelsey Grammar's Dr. Frasier Crane, Shere Kahn as he appeared in Disney's Tale Spin, and Sun and Moon from Show Biz Pizza Place's "Rock-a-Fire Explosion" animatronic house band.

After all, I'm sure I could give people plenty of reasons not to like me, but why would I want to? Basically, I always aim to take the higher road, and be the better person.

Now I like what you said about having a job that takes advantage of your special interest; I wouldn't specifically go as far to call it "Supercharging Your Autism", but I would definitely consider it using your knowledge and skills to your advantage. Doing so can contribute to supercharging, but there's so much more to it, I assure you.

Any other questions? I'm more than happy to offer any advice I can

Yes, and there's nothing to "fix" either.

I fully agree. Additionally, NTs who are not that way still can't comprehend this phenomenon when we try to explain it to them. They'll either say, "well I don't have a problem with so-and-so, so it must be you," or they talk in vague generalities likes, "oh, we've all experienced mean people, some people had a bad day, who cares what they think?," etc., never fully comprehending what we experience because they've never experienced it themselves, being that they're socially competent.

I'm not saying here that we don't go thru difficulty with people; what I am saying is a way we can use our own abilities to deal with it in extraordinary ways.

can you give some more examples. Examples are good