Why I'll Never Understand the NT World

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If it's just for fun there is no major rulebook. If you care about rules become an ump.

I don't mind being corrected. Sometimes I have my facts wrong or I stated something incorrect. However, this is almost never the case with NTs. There are so many variables with NTs that I can never remember them all. My rule is that I will only correct family members and only if they appear well rested. I can't read how others will react to correction, so I rarely try.

Yeah people in general can't stand to be wrong. It's why adults argue so much more severely than kids ever will, they simply must be right and their ego is extremely hurt when you point out otherwise. One of the things that separates me from them is that I am very open to learning whenever somebody points out that i'm wrong. There really isn't that need to defend my ego/reputation etc. from the seemingly permanent harm that comes from being proven wrong on your assertion I guess.

But with the OP in mind, I have found that it is especially dangerous to prove somebody wrong when they make such a bold assertion in front of everybody that YOU are wrong. That compounds this profoundly, and that's when you get the stalking and waiting in the weeds for the ambush the next time you are wrong, despite the fact that you obviously care about it far less than they did in the first place, and will not really look down on them because they were wrong, but I think they feel that you will anyway, because it's the "normal" thing to do.

Oh yeah, and I think this classic quote applies since, well, we're often devoid of social power/strength/status:

"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." -Voltaire

I learned this to be 110% true in my experience with the university.

Yes, showing a better or more correct way seems to be reserved to those born at the top of the socioeconomic ladder, namely with very rich, influential parents - see Budha and St. Francis of Assissi and so many others. Nowadays, before I correct someone, I consider our relative positions in the (formal or informal) hierarchy.

Another important principle of the NT world is "thy shall always let others save face". For anything we do, we have to take into account that the belonging to the group is the highest value for NTs, so they'll become especially vicious if you correct them in front of people they want to make a good impression on. And the group itself, rather than feeling they benefit from the correct data, will react negatively to someone making another lose face, because they know next time this person could do it to them. You're a traitor to the principle, so to speak.

All that said, there are a million subtle, highly welcome ways to correct someone. You're not supposed to just shut up. But those ways are so difficult for us aspies to intuit, and even to learn, that they're a fine rope to walk on, can backfire on us badly, so I hardly ever try them.

Examples:
A common one would be: "Hmmm, that's interesting, somehow I was under the idea that America was discovered by Columbus..." (said in an innocent and not a sarcastic tone, of course, but we aspies can soooo get the intonation wrong!).

"Oh really? Last time I was there they didn't have it, I'll try again!"

This way, you're not telling someone that you know better but that you two have different opinions, either of you could be right or wrong. You're letting them save face.

NTs are experts at this game and the group standing by will KNOW that you're correcting the speaker and that you're right, but as long as you do it the phony, indirect, covert, convened NT way, everyone will be perfectly ok with it, therefore leaving the inaccurate speaker without backup should he want to react negatively to you for correcting him. And when an NT has no group backup, they know better than react negatively to you, both in public or in private. Because the group-think is so influential on NTs, they truly internalize that you're someone to be respected!

You might be right but it also feels horrible to not be right, I would rather be in my comfy bed than be proven wrong.

There is a lot of very insightful comments on this thread.




TheSunAlsoRises

Generally in groups the most popular people get to be 'right' whether they are factually correct or not ie the group generally like to agree with them whatever they say. So a person of lower status/popularity in the group who tries correcting a person of higher status in the group is not going to get an easy time of it as it is like challenging the leader's status.

It's never about what is actually said with groups - it's all about who is saying it and what their status is in the group. If you have high group status you can say any amount of meaningless and ill-informed rubbish and be listened to avidly but a low status group member will often be side-lined, ignored or ridiculed, no matter how knowledgeable what they say is.

It sounds to me like that guy was popular and looking for a way to put you down, and neither he nor anyone else cared what was actually correct. I have no idea how to deal with a situation like that, but I've certainly been treated that way, too.

I want to first thank everyone for their contributions. They have been extremely helpful even if I don't completely agree with everyone. Glad to know I have people who care and have taken the time to respond.

Let me show you the difference, and the cause of so many misunderstandings.

I have never seen it put better and i believe it pertains to those across the entire Autism spectrum.

---------------------------------------------snip----------------------------------------------------

Trained as a physicist, Allan Snyder helped usher in the modern fiber-optics era with his breakthroughs in optical waveguide transmission in the 1960s. At the Centre for the Mind in Sydney, Snyder has built on the work of Treffert, Sacks, and others to suggest that autistic savants have "privileged access" to the mind's raw data before it's parsed and filtered by the brain's executive functions.

Musical savants, in his view, have absolute pitch because they tap directly into the discrete frequency receptors in the cortex without any left-hemisphere meddling. Savant artists draw with exceptional accuracy, he says, because "they see the world as it really is."

"Our knowledge and expertise blind us," Snyder told me last spring. "If we could switch off our conceptual mind, we could have a momentary literal viewing of the world."

This is an advantage in some areas of life, BUT it does not mean that you are any better or any smarter than anyone else. It just means your neurology may allow you to see the world differently from 99% of the population.

With this information, knowing full well your neurology is different, why would you become angered at someone for something they can do and you can't ?

Why would you go out of your way to try and humiliate someone by emphasizing the things they can't do ?

I know 'why' BUT I am confident enough in myself to acknowledge my many short comings and at the same time be happy for those who have great success with their own ability.

Here is the article, it is an interesting read.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/genius_pr.html

TheSunAlsoRises

Invisiblesilent, thank you, glad it helped.

I've learnt that much, much of the difference between our logic and NT logic can be explained by the NT top value of protecting the group. For us it's not even a value, let alone our top life value. They derive their strength from togetherness, safety in numbers, we derive it from rational, logical, precise, realistic, scientific, correct analysis.

We have to try to remember, at every step of an interaction with NTs, not to tread on their need to first and foremost protect the group, because then all hell hangs loose against us and any "social don juan" trying to impress a bunch of women can make hamburgers with our flesh in a minute, because they know we have lost the group's positive regard and are standing alone right now.

This is also the reason why we're bullied - bullies attack those who don't have the backup of the group. It's also the reason why we're fired from jobs - management always fire first the employee that has no strong ties among the other employees. Because there's no repercussion - no one who will stand up for the victim and accuse unfairness. Bullies and management are very careful with these things, because they could lose a lot of image if they singled out someone with backup.

If there's one thing we aspies have to be very careful about, is to not present as a threat to a given group's cohesion, not even suspected of being a threat.

If the given group is with you or at least not against you, you can do some work to try and get rid of your bullies.

Politicians know it best - first of all, work to win public opinion.