I can't stand people anymore.

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No, she's not a horrible person. She just doesn't understand. That + lack of sleep + not being able to be by myself + changes (starting uni etc) = chaos.

I think it's really difficult knowing who my friends are even though you just explained it to me. What if a person listens to me and helps me but we hardly ever see each other or talk to each other? Is that a friend?



What makes you think that?

this is a really terrible situation, im so very sorry that you have to endure this. you need to get your own place as soon as possible because you are obviously severely stressed and putting your physical and mental health, your grades/career and your friendship to the person you're currently staying with at risk.

in the meantime: since you're in a city with a university there should be a campus library that is open until at least midnight. there will be few people and the few people will be very quiet and minding their own business because they are there to study. also you will most likely have internet access or you can take a nap or read and study yourself. this way you wont be able to sleep early properly either, but you can at least relax there and only return to your friends place when it is already very late and they will go to sleep soon. in case the library is closing early or far away from your friends place id rather sit on a park bench with my laptop/book (or in a quiet little bar in case the weather does not allow it) than being in a room with other people being noisy while im just trying to sleep. however thats just a temporary solution.

also: what you describe definately sounds like aspergers syndrome to me. you have difficulties being around other people for so long, you have difficulties adapting to relevant changes, you have difficulties defining other peoples relationship towards you and not being able to spend enough time alone and in silence without too much sensory input from the outside and having to deal with unpredictable things happening all the time drains you in an extreme way. thats textbook. apparently you have additionally developed social phobia as a response to it.

i live on my own since i am 19 but i remember several incidents from when i was a child and was forced to participate in visits to aquaintances of my mother where i did not have my own room and was constantly "given attention", talked to and around other children and adults who interferred with my thoughts and "playing". luckily this lasted only for a few hours or a day at most but nevertheless i experienced it as extremely stressful and im very careful about never getting myself into the situation of staying at another persons place without being able to leave and to return to my own place whenever i like to. i can therefor understand how awful you must feel enduring this for days now. other people, like your friend, will eventually understand that you are not very happy with the arrangement as it is and wish to sleep, but they almost always fail to grasp the severity of the situation. my mother still feels guilty for having left me by myself so much when i was little (she was working again since i was in kindergarten, i was going home on my own and mostly alone for the afternoon since elementary school and i had my own key to our house and took care of myself since i was 10) although i have explained to her many times that it was perfect being alone and that i had a very pleasant childhood because of this.

I think that is very mature of you to recognize that. People vary in the degree to which they are able to understand the experience of others, even among NTs. Just because someone doesn't "get it" doesn't mean they are a horrible person. Sometimes it just means they don't "get it." And I know for me, there are certain things that can be happening (lack of sleep being one) that actually contributes to my own difficulties. It doesn't make things any easier when they are hard, but reminding myself does help keep things in perspective.



Sometimes. These days I rarely see or speak to my best friend. But if we ever needed each other, we'd move heaven and earth to be there.

There are different kinds of friend, too. Not all of them will be as some describe: these bastions of understanding, acceptance, and support. Some friends are just people you hang around with because you have similar interests and you enjoy each other's company. But they may not be the kind of person you call upon if you need help or assistance.

If you consider the visual of concentric circles with regards to your social circles, with yourself in the middle and your close family in the next circle, the remaining circles can all be considered "friends" but they won't all hold the same place in your life or have the same meaning to you. I have my closest friends, people who are no different to me than family. I have work friends, people I hang out with at work and who's company I truly enjoy, but I would not spend time with them outside of work. If I need help in a work-related way, I would definitely reach out to them, but not in a personal way. I have "parent friends," who are other parents I know with kids. Most of our conversations and time spent together have something to do with the kids. I like them and they like me, but I would not expect them to be particularly helpful if I had problems or anything like that. I also have "special needs parent friends." In many respects, I am closer to these people than many others because they understand things about my life that others don't. I share more intimate things with them sometimes than I do with my family or inner circle of friends, but I would not expect them to assist me in any way. When I had more free time, I also had "interest-based friends" who were people I hung out with because we enjoyed doing the same things. Our friendships mainly revolved around our shared interest (oftentimes crafts or sewing with me) and I enjoy their company a great deal, but the relationship often remains fairly superficial. I also have acquaintances. These are people I know because they are friends with someone else I know. I enjoy their company when I see them, but I would expect absolutely nothing from them, except companionship when we happen to be in the same place at the same time.

Sometimes I think people define "friend" in a too narrow manner, usually such as I define my friends who share an emotional space with my family, a way in which most people will never be able to measure up. Then when people fail to measure up to that tightly constrained definition, they are discarded as not being friends. I think that limits us severely in the relationships we form and enjoy. Plus, people find it difficult to be friends with someone if their expectations are too high for what they have to offer. Sometimes I think it is best to define "friendship" on an individual basis, and to set your expectations on an individual basis. I mean, I have friends that I would expect to buy a plane ticket and be here if one of my kids was critically ill, but I also have friends who I don't even expect a return phone call from. I find that when you expect from people what they are willing and able to give, life gets a lot less stressful and I am much more able to "go with the flow."

Yes, I'm moving to my place on Saturday next week. I hate being here. I thought it was going to be quite nice coming here. I thought it would be nice meeting my "friend". Before arriving here I had not seen her in about 2 years and last time I saw her she was nice. But then, my problems weren't as intense as they are now. Is that "normal"? Things getting worse with time? Things have gotten worse since I was 16 or so (I'm almost 22 now). Especially the last 3 years when I've had to take care of myself.



But maybe I'm just really introverted? Anyway, I really wish I knew for sure. Not knowing makes me extremely stressed and anxious. It's like I don't know myself. I don't understand myself. I've always sort of wondered if life's supposed to be this difficult. I don't even remember what it feels like to feel happy or peaceful. I'm not always completely miserable, but I'm never feeling good. I wish I could write down all my problems here and that you could just tell me what the heck is going on inside my head. I'm aware that's not really possible, but still. I wish this seemingly endless confusion would just stop.



I didn't realise that yesterday when I was so incredibly annoyed. I realised it today. It still bothers me though. I hate the fact they're having a party here tomorrow night so I won't be able to go to sleep early. So instead I have to get out of the house. I'll probably go to a quiet pub and drink my sorrows away. I don't do that often, but I just want to make my brain shut up for a little while.

About the friend thing. I think I might have 3 friends. One is my boyfriend. One is a guy who I like having deep discussions with (about the universe and science and things like that) but I wouldn't talk to him about my problems. One is a girl who I hardly ever see but when we see each other we have a nice time and she listens to me. I do have acquaintances as well. I'm not sure I'd call the person I'm now staying with my friend anymore. I don't know. It's so difficult knowing. I don't understand why I can't identify it.

Another important thing to realize is that "friend" is not a permanent label. People grow and change, and sometimes it takes them in different directions. It may be that she was once your friend, but now she isn't anymore, but it isn't that she is like your enemy or anti-friend, it's just that you are no longer compatible.

Or maybe you are just compatible in a more removed way.

Just keep telling yourself that this is a temporary situation. Do the best you can to cope until you can get settled in to your new place. Then when you are not so stressed, you can re-evaluate from a more rational place. The most important thing to do now is to just do whatever you have to do make it through until you can move.

Well, I have a friend I hardly ever see or talk to, but he is still a friend because at least we do have contact and are willing to help each other out with anything within our capabilities.



Eh, I really am not sure why I said that, I don't really know much about you. If I remember correctly, you have reasons to suspect Asperger's and are waiting to find out if you've got it or not, right? Anyway, I've just embarrassed myself by making conclusions about someone I don't even know. Making conclusions about people I don't know based on very little information is something I should learn to not do.

I dont think so. My understanding is that one trait of autism and asperger's syndrome is an inability to dispense of stress in a controlled manner. NT's are able to release their stress gradually which is why they appear to have a much broader range of emotional expressions. How my psychologist explained it to me, is that in us ASD people the stress builds up and builds up until it explodes like a bomb or a balloon being filled with water. Its this 'explosion' that manifests as a meltdown.

One important therapeutic technique she taught me is to identify stress triggers so they can be pre-empted, avoided or rationalised. Since I finished my therapy my meltdowns, while still occuring are happening on a much less frequent basis.

I would strongly encourage you to keep pursuing a diagnosis. While it will probably be a matter of confirming what you already suspect about your neurology, unfortunately an official diagnosis is often necessary to access state help such as welfare and interventionary treatment such as psychological counselling or academic assistance within the place of study. You may also find a range of new doors opening for you such as disabled students funding, depending on the adequacy of services where you live. I would imagine Sweden to be one of the worlds leaders in that area.

Last edited by thomas81 on 31 Aug 2012, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, you haven't embarrassed yourself. I was just curious. And yes, at least in my opinion I've got reasons to suspect AS and I'm queueing to get assessed (which could take up to 2 years). Sometimes I'm afraid I'm delusional or something though. For suspecting AS I mean. Sometimes I seriously consider not getting assessed. But I guess I would regret it if I didn't.



Yeah, that's pretty much what it's like for me. People can see if I don't feel good though. But I never really talk about my feelings and I bottle them up until I can't take it anymore and then I get a meltdown.

I guess for some strange reason I thought there was hostility in your question, almost like "How could you possibly know? You don't know me!" But originally, I was trying to say if you have good enough reasons to suspect it and it seems possible that you might have it, then maybe you should tell your friend you suspect it and are waiting to find out. Maybe that would help with the situation.

But if you've done as much research as possible on Asperger's and actually do have reasons to suspect that you have it, then you're not delusional to suspect that you might have it. So the assessment would be a very good idea because when that time comes, you will find out with certainty if you have AS or not.

No, no hostility. I was genuinely curious. Anyway, I've actually told her about my suspicions but she doesn't seem to care. Well, she seemed to care when I first told her about it, but now she doesn't. It really confuses me. Look, I've had problems for as long as I can remember. Until the beginning of this year I never told anyone about it. But in February I just had enough and I decided to seek help. I was so overwhelmed and so confused. So I decided to tell people (or whatever those people can be defined as) about it while waiting to see a psychologist. Not a lot of people, but people I trust (a friend and later a psychologist I know). For some reason most people don't believe me. They listen and they seem nice in the beginning but then they gradually stop talking to me. Why is that? It makes me really confused. I've told a few people about my situation. Not a lot of people but a few. I don't do it because I want attention (I mean I don't really crave attention). I do it because I seek help and reassurance. Is that weird? I just want someone to actually freaking listen to me and take my problems seriously. People don't. Not even my mother takes my problems seriously. So the person who's place I'm staying at right now isn't the first one to not care about my issues. I know I've already said it, but it makes me really confused. I'm not even sure if what I've just written makes sense. Do you understand what I mean?

Regarding if NT's have meltdowns:

Both NTs and ASDs can and do have temper tantrums, which can appear to get very out of control, but they are still volitional to a point. There usually remains some degree of consciousness and desire to have one's own way or express one's own point of view.

But I don't think NT's have true meltdowns the way ASDs do.

Sometimes they look very similar, but--at least in my experience--you can tell them apart. When my daughter has a tantrum, she remains verbal and argumentative although her behavior can escalate quite a bit. If you say something to her, she will counter your statement. But she will do so with utter rage and lack of reason. However, when she is in meltdown mode, she does not respond verbally. If she verbalizes, it is to repeat the same thing over and over again, and it does not change based on what someone else says. She is not at all argumentative, although she may be combative. If you look at her closely, you can see a degree of panic underlying what might on the surface look like anger. Sometimes there is no anger at all. Only a very primal-looking panic. Tantrums can also be stopped by giving in to her demands, but once she is in meltdown, there is nothing to do but wait it out. You could offer to buy her her own pony if she would stop and it would not help because her behavior is past her control.

I do suspect, though, that given enough stress an NT can go into a blind rage, but I still think that is somehow different than an ASD meltdown.

Forgive me if this is not very well thought out. This is a new idea I was playing with due to the question and it may not even pan out to anything meaningful.

I'm not sure it's that they don't care. I think it may be that they don't understand.

I think some people are uncomfortable with things they don't understand. And rather than trying to understand it is just easier to either ignore the issue or the person. I think there is also a very poor understanding of AS in the general public. And because a lot of people see it primarily as a psychiatric issue, they have the faulty impression that you could stop it if only you tried hard enough.

I do not think it is at all weird for you to want reassurance. I think it is completely normal. It might help you to look for that reassurance in other places, though, because it seems like many of the people you've turned to are unable to offer it. Perhaps you could find out if there are any groups for people with AS on your campus. I imagine there are. Another thing I have found is it seems to be that many people with ADHD tend to have a high degree of understanding of those with AS. So even if there wasn't anything for AS, perhaps looking for a group for people with ADHD would help. I think it would just help you to find a group of people who are not like others, who are aware of it, and who would like to talk about it. I mean, of course you can do that here, but sometimes it is nice to have F2F interactions, too.

I think I understand what you are saying. It could just be that the people you have told who start out accepting in the beginning, but then later on either ignore it or don't believe you anymore, just simply don't understand what it's like to be you. If only you had a friend who was able to fully understand you and the issues that you have to deal with. Maybe if you had a friend like that to stay with, the situation would be much better. I really do wish I knew how to help or how to make the entire situation better, but I really don't.

But seriously, even the psychologist I know (who said she suspected I've got AS too, but that it might just as well be something else) has stopped talking to me. I've been told it might have been because I emailed her with too many questions (3 emails in 2 months, which I don't think is that much) because she told me I could email her if I had questions. I've been told people don't always mean "email me" or "call me" when they say "email me" or "call me". I makes me really annoyed when people don't say what they mean and mean what they say.

About joining a group for people with AS. I don't think I can do that. I mean, I would feel like a liar or something. I don't know if I have AS and if I don't know for sure if I've got AS I can't go to one of those groups. Do you know what I mean?

The only people who have really tried to understand what I'm going through and the only people who seem to care are you guys here at WP. I've never met someone like-minded "in real life".

EDIT: And I hope that I'm still allowed to read and post things here even if it turns out I don't have AS.

Maybe a better question to ask would be, what reason do you have to believe that you are NT?

Having never met you i'm not qualified to pass judgement, but if the content of your posts is a reliable guide (stimming, meltdowns, extreme social anxiety) i think its fairly safe to conclude you are on the spectrum. The only thing to deduce is your level of functionality.

If you are still in any doubt, at least sit the aspie quiz if you haven't already done so . It is a fairly scientific and fairly reliable self diagnosis tool.

http://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php