Is Autism/Asperger a defect?

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I'm neither defective or disabled. My autism is my identity and there exist a solid philosophical and scientifically foundation supporting this. But this kind of identity differ a great deal from the culture in which I'm born and grown up in. In this culture my identity leads to a disabled state because of the gap between my identity and the expected cultural identity. The solution to this problem is either to try to change the mind of the people in the culture, adapt to the culture, ignore the culture or a mix of these solutions. My solution is to sometimes adapt and other times ignore.

I just did a little research and their was a time when the SAT and ACT flagged students scores who received accommodations like extra time. This stopped years ago though because the courts ruled it was discrimination.

I can't take credit for what knifegill wrote, but sure, I'll bite. So you do not have very sharp senses then? What were those accommodations your mother did if not for that?



Yes, the only negative aspects are created by society. The OP talked about "aspies just want help and speeecial treatment whyyyyY" but the truth is that there are lots and lots of accommodations already in place, but they are invisible as they are geared toward NTs.



This whole topic is just inflammatory and trollish, even though I love lots of the replies. It should be renamed "Does Asperger's in itself cause only problems and no positives at all, also if you agree I will say you don't deserve help. If you don't agree you're a liar"

I don't think it's denial of truth at all, rather it's just us not wanting yet another label and seeing as how it's not a mental issue, but rather a neurological one (brain is wired differently), I don't think it ever should be classified as a "disorder" or even "defect". Especially since scientists don't understand the brain, fully. Sure, we have our own issues that we deal with every day, but that doesn't mean we should be labeled and such. Afterall, we don't go around labeling "NT's" as anything but normal, which in this world happens to be the accepted stance of what people should be.
And really, what is the logic in calling it a "disorder" or "defect" anyway? To say something is a "disorder" or "defect", one would have to believe in that little something that everyone denies exists called "normal", since "disorder" means "out of place" or "not of normal (usual) circumstance", etc. and "defect" means "an imperfection that impairs worth/'utility'" (and by that definition, everyone has a defect and would be considered "normal" occurrence, because no one is perfect)
So the better question is: "is there such a thing as "normal?" because if you say "no" then the arguement that we have a "disorder" goes right out the window.
Case and point.

Last edited by Jaden on 20 Dec 2012, 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

In a nutshell:

I don't fit well with society. It's an NT world, and things are not designed to be hospitable to me. This is depressing, traumatic, and gets in the way of living my life fully. In that way, it's a disability.
However, I like myself. I like the way I think and the stuff I create. I also appreciate the thoughts and work of other aspies. I *don't* much care for the vast majority of NTs or for NT culture. So no, I wouldn't call it a defect.

I have lived with disabilities all my life that I did not know were even considered disabilities. If I had known that there were other people who suffered with the same problems I would not have felt so defective. I'm not talking about just social problems. I was not even aware that there were social cues that I was not getting. I was confused as to why I was different and always by myself but I didn't really mind being alone.

The worst problems were the cognitive ones. Virtually no working memory, being slow to process things, difficulty expressing thoughts, inability to focus on more than one thing at a time, loosing track of time, not being able to concentrate unless I am in a quiet, peaceful environment by myself, problems with planning and memory problems. These were things I tried to hide from people so they would not think I was stupid. I felt I was smart and stupid at the same time. I was a talented computer programmer, but if anyone asked me about a project I was working on I could not say much more than "I will have it done by morning", and I always did. I never missed a deadline and was never given a programming assignment that I could not complete. If I was given instructions I would say "OK" any questions? "no". I could not process the instructions fast enough to ask questions but I had all night to figure it out by myself and I always did.

In fact, I never asked questions, I always figured out every thing for myself. That is the only way I could hide my cognitive difficulties. I never even asked my boss for a raise because I didn't know how to go about doing that.

Now that I am aware that there is a whole social world that I was completely oblivious to, I am noticing things I have not noticed before. I have been watching old sentimental movies that I have watched many years ago and I am noticing for the first time the way the actors look at each other and touch each other and gaze into each others eyes. In the past I have never paid attention to this at all. I was just taking in the story line. I really have been living on a different planet.

I can see now that I have been disabled but I have learned to cope in my own strange way. I was also totally oblivious to stimming behaviors. I must have seemed really odd.

In spite of all this, I like the way I think. I like being in my inner world and I like that I am content with being alone. It is my personality and I don't want to be any other way.

I used to talk to my horse. She'd bite me in return.

Socially ret*d even to animals it seems.

"Aspergers Disorder" was a term intended to refer to people who have specific impairments in major life activities. The "What is normal?" argument is utterly irrelevant.

If you are not "impaired," you do not have Aspergers. Period.



I have accommodations at work. Those accommodations have absolutely nothing to do with "sensory super powers."



Nope.

If all you have are "social problems," you do not have Aspergers.

I view myself as disabled. The impairments caused by being autistic are real and often frustrating. I am not distressed by the fact that I am autistic, but I do find a lot of things distressing that other people would not find distressing and this is due to being autistic.

I also believe that being autistic has had some beneficial effects for me, but I do not see autism as a superpower. I do find it interesting how autistic people describe a diverse variety of sensory perceptions and thinking styles, and I find it fascinating to contrast how I think with how others think.

I find the idea that some Aspies are exploiting the system to get unearned accommodations rather difficult to take seriously. I am not unfamiliar with people judging disabled people harshly for not appearing to be disabled enough to receive accommodations. For example, people complaining about someone with disabled tags being able to park in handicapped spaces - not really acknowledging that such people may very well have quite valid reasons for having the tags.

I do not think that accommodations should be disclosed. This amounts to a HIPAA violation in the US. This is especially problematic when the attitude that disabled people are exploiting the system to get unfair advantages is present and unfortunately common.

I'll like to add:

The DSM-IV-TR points out that Asperger's and its symptoms cause "considerable disability" (that's the quote).

Whilst I don't think I'm considerably disabled... (sure, I can't drive, really interact with people (social is out), work, brush my teeth, make most meals..., ok, I'm probably considerably disabled. But, I can also do a lot of things too! I can mow, brush cut, fix mechanical objects, read and write, use a computer and many other devices, actually talk in a way to get my point across, even if not social, clean my bedroom, and many other chores. But, I'm not like someone who can't initiate something like eating without direct input from someone else, much like many with LFA have, plus many other self-help deficits. I can dress myself. And it goes on and on with things I can do and those that I can't, even though some seemingly don't make sense to normal people, but that's the fragmented pattern of ability that's a hallmark of autism itself).

Not that my disability bothers me at all. After all, I've never known any different.

It's a DNA alternation.

It's not bad, but it's not good either....it is what it is.

The thing that bothers me MORE then Aspergers is the co-conditions you get with it...I am unhappy with what I have...but Aspergers is the least of my problems as I have accepted it a long time ago. In fact, I was very happy when that was the only thing that I had, even though it impacted my parents heavily due to the ignorance of the public.

Hold the phone.
I never said there wasn't impairment, I said there was no real logic to using the word "disorder" and still maintain that "normality" doesn't exist. Furthermore, the term Aspergers Disorder is over 70 years old and can not in any way be expected to still be a relevant term, given the changes to not only medical science but also the descriptions therein, especially about AS because it's changed over that time in terms of how medicine understands it.
I maintain that what people consider as "normal" and whether or not "normality" exists determines what is and is not "normal" (disorder or defect). If "normality" didn't exist, the terms "disorder" and "defect" wouldn't exist because we'd just be another person who is in the midst of grand difference, not considered to be "out of place". And so it is indeed relevant because that's what shaped the terms to begin with.
What people consider as normality, has everything to do with what they consider as "out of place" or not, sociology would prove that I imagine, seeing as how it's largely in the same realm of study.

Good thing I don't think "normality" doesn't exist.

It does, I just don't attach the moral connotations to it that others do.



It is changing. To Autism Spectrum DISORDER.



What shaped the term is that people with enough "impairments" could be considered "disordered."

Let's stop thinking in terms of "normal = good" and "abnormal = bad." Being "disabled" or "disordered" is not bad, nor is falling outside of statistical averages (which is what "normal" means).

I agree, I just wanted to clarify my position and thoughts on the matter. I don't disagree that it is a disorder, I was simply pointing out the lack of logic that some people have when using the word and then saying that "normality" doesn't exist. (which, we know it does cause we're the ones left out of it lol)

But it's not just some coincidence. As I have said before on this forum, the norm is what it is for a reason. I think this is pretty self-evident. I think that a lot of confusion could be eliminated if people grasped the way a species is formed and (more to the point) maintained by evolutionary mechanisms.

Human beings have been "designed", so to speak, to work in a certain way. Of course there is variance, but for the most part the human "idea" is pretty narrow. The problem seems to be that people have no problem accepting this in regard to any body part aside from the brain. Only a pedantic blowhard or some sort of activist would deny that humans are "supposed" to have two arms (please mind the quotation marks there) and people who have a different number of arms are not merely members of some random minority group that happens to be the minority for no particular reason aside from there simply being more of the other kind of people. A person who has one arm, for instance, either a) was born a two-armer and lost one, or b) was born with a fairly major part of their body missing. No mother who just gave birth would look at their one-armed baby and think, "Oh, look at that, he's got one arm" the way she might think "Oh, look at that, he's got black hair" or something.

I hate to say it, but our brains aren't terribly more diverse than our legs. There's a pretty narrow definition for what the brain is "supposed" to work like. They're supposed to facilitate our sight, smell, taste, etc. Our speech, movement, balance...you get the idea. And it's supposed to knit all of that stuff into a harmonious subjective experience which allows for the individual to interact with their environment effectively. When one of these things is missing...well, it's missing. It doesn't mean that person is bad or can't have a good life or anything like that.

Autism is a serious disorder. All of this "arbitrary minority" stuff sounds ludicrous when you keep that in mind.

I'm wondering who these people getting accommodations thrown at them like confetti might be, because I've had to batter my head against walls almost literally to get aaany recognition for the problems I actually have to deal with. For example, I can't navigate my way out of a box and, have poor practical skills so I can't drive, but because I am able bodied and because there is no legal reason not to give someone with ASD a driver's licence, I wasn't allowed to have a bus pass. This whilst knowing some people who were in wheelchairs and had adjusted cars so automatically had a bus pass AND drove. (Not to mention all the people over 60 I know who work full time and have bus passes, but I digress).

It took me two years, my disability student assessment (which had to redone because they messed up most of my personal information, including my DOB), my local autism advisor and my GP to get the council to even consider giving me a bus pass. Two years. And this came too late for it to help me when living in London, the busiest, most confusing city in the whole of England to navigate, which meant I spent a fortune on bus transport just to make sure I could get to my classes and other meets. The main reason that I had to fight so hard was because, and I quote, "we don't have a category for this."

In my experience, people with ASD are usually fall through loopholes and don't get accommodations without putting up a serious fight. For me, this means I would only even contemplate adjustments that had a major impact on my quality of life and put me at a serious disadvantage to other people (for example, being able to travel independently).

The only thing that I received without any need for a fight was the option for extra time and my own exam room at uni, but since I didn't need extra time, I didn't have it. I DID have my own room, but that's such a tiny accommodation, it had no impact on the length, difficulty of the paper etc so was no different from anyone else's exam, just allowed me to leave when I was done without the worry of upsetting other students when I finished stupidly early (as I tend to do).

...I won't even begin on how many years it took me to be able to even apply for disability living allowance...again, thanks to the autism advisor's intervention. Even my Disabled Student Allowance assessments and everything were, as I said, messed up and almost gave me a nervous breakdown. Overly accommodated? I don't think so.