Why do NTs reject normal friendliness?
whirlingmind
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Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Age: 57
Gender: Female
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Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Yes...which goes back to pack mentality. None of them want to be the different one, they all want the approval and acceptance of their peers so it's like the vibe they give feeds off each other, no-one will break that bond and try to make friends with someone that they consider different. Because then they might face disapproval from their peers and lose their status within the pack if they do. Sheep, the lot of them. Being different might not have brought me bundles of happiness, but at least I stay true to myself and don't have to copy others for fear of their disapproval. (Cold comfort some might say, because yes, I am aware of the benefits of belonging to the pack!)
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*Truth fears no trial*
DX AS & both daughters on the autistic spectrum
The pack mentality is only useful if you are in danger, in all other aspects of life it will stifle a person's individuality - they literally can't be themselves and every decision has to be put through the filter of what the group will think about it - that's not living your own life! I feel sorry for people who jump to the groups's tune - they are slaves effectively and if the group decides to partake in illegal activity (as often happens) they're f-ked - they have no choice but to join in as the group takes precedence over everything.
Group allegiance is the ruin of many people in my opinion as the people making the 'group decisions' are invariably thick as sh**,
incapable of thinking for themselves.
I think that situation is nothing to worry about, NTs also get reactions like that from other NTs, even if they wanted to be friendly.
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"If I were you, I'd like to be ME!"
"We are all slaves of our genes. Blame them, not the individuals or the mass."
75% NT, 25% Aspie.
I'm actually out of that situation at the moment because I've been home-educating, but it will no doubt arise again. It reminds me why I keep a distance in the first place, it's just too complicated and difficult.
I take your point. Lets put it this way. If I was in your shoes (hypothetically) then I would not take a rebuff personally. Part of my ability to try looking at things through other people's eyes comes from my NT wife who has given me some invaluable tips on people who I would have (in the past) profiled as snobs.
I think its because they arent used to kindness or honesty because they enjoy conning eachother and stabbing eachother in the back.
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Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
It's a bit like having a credit rating but it's a social assessment.
I guess this can be true to some extent. However we are talking about mixing with people of a similar socio-demographic background to ourselves whom we do not personally know.
Social groups have a dynamic that relates to being part of the in-group versus those not part of the group and therefore "out-group". For instance if people ignore you because you dress poorly, are black or in a wheelchair then other factors may be contibuting to them ignoring you.
I am assuming the OP is from a similar background and (on appearance) would be accepted by the group if she was "known" to them. Coming into the group of parents as an Aspie might not automatically relate or pick up on social cues or social banter that they (as a group) are used to picking up from each other through contant exposure to each other and living in the same social environment (i.e. growing up in the same neighborhood).
I am of course simplifying multiple pardigms and yes, there may be more subtle social status aspects at play, we can only go by the information at hand,.
You don't really believe that do you?
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
You don't really believe that do you?
I understrand and don't blame you for feeling that way. Just remember there are good NT people out there....
I call the so-called 'good' NT's 'Pat pat on the head types' ie they might not be nasty to you but they certainly aren't treating you as an equal either - they feel sorry for you and are kind/more tolerant for this reason but you are still some poor unfortunate to them, certainly not like them.
I'd say it's pretty cut-throat socially for NTs so we've often got no chance. Being very good looking can often go in your favour with NTs but in a female group, if too many of the group are less attractive they may not take well to an attractive person.
I am fascinated by what tips the balance in terms of when good looks are an asset and when they are not.
NT women usually give me the impression that I'm not feminine looking or acting enough for them to want to know. An NT woman can get away with not being pretty if she can still do the female act (typical female behaviour) but if you can't you're seen as odd.
I've often thought that my interactions with other women are more like a man's ie they are like an alien species to me. The male mindset is far more familiar to me and I feel far more at ease with men - intelligent ones on my wavelength that is.
It may just be that I can only do a genderless interacting style and this works for others who do the same. People who play to their gender, as most men and women do, don't relate to me.
I also wonder whether not looking stereotypical enough for my gender has in turn altered my behaviour to make it less gender-based or if my less feminine appearance resulted in by behaviour, with both being dictated by hormones?
Anyway, to try and work out the reason for the woman's behaviour towards the OP, I'd need to know what to OP looks like as looks and the way a person comes across physically are a major factor influencing whether people will want to interact with you or not.
whirlingmind
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Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,130
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
I am white, despite what female Aspies are said to be like in terms of appearance, I love make-up, jewellery and dressing decently (although at home I slob around), I have been told I am pretty/beautiful by other people.
The person in this social situation was an average-attractive looking black woman. The rest of the parent group (which were across the other side) were all white (some British some Eastern European Immigrants), from what I can recall average-looking mums.
That's the best analysis I can give, does that help?
_________________
*Truth fears no trial*
DX AS & both daughters on the autistic spectrum
The person in this social situation was an average-attractive looking black woman. The rest of the parent group (which were across the other side) were all white (some British some Eastern European Immigrants), from what I can recall average-looking mums.
That's the best analysis I can give, does that help?
So in fact it could be that your looks make this woman herself or other members of her group uneasy/insecure.
There's no way of knowing for sure but jealousy can often be a feature when women are unfriendly towards other women.
It's usually either because you are too pretty or not pretty enough ie there's an imbalance between you and how the rest of the group are in some way. Most people are insecure at heart and they like to be around people like themselves, who don't bring out their insecurity - that's the crux of how social groups operate.
Since this is entirely situational, there's no way to know. No one explanation will explain all (or even most) times this happens. Every single explanation given so far is true for some interaction at some time. But which one applies to this interaction? That is impossible to answer. It is impossible to answer "why do NTs do this?" because there are many reasons and each one applies only in that one specific interaction. There is no answer that will cover all interactions.
That said, I will add another possible motivation to the long list of possible motivations. This isn't because I think the one I give is more likely than the ones already given. I just think it's good to have the many possible motivations listed. You have no way of knowing which one is correct or if it's one that didn't make the list.
Another possible motivation:
The protective reason for hanging out in groups isn't just for protection against external danger (presenting a united front against a threat), it is also to get a stronger handle on each other's motivations. When you talk to a person frequently, you get a stronger sense of what forces motivate them and what they want out of life and more specifically what they want from other people. Somebody to talk to? Somebody to carpool with? Somebody to have playdates with their kid? And so on. This is a tendency that sociopaths exploit by presenting the most benign possible image in a group setting even after extensive group chit-chats.
If you don't join a group and let people analyze your motivations via chit-chat (which is what they are doing often), they will invent motivations in their head. Nobody will just let it stand as "I know nothing about her so I will form no opinion whatsoever". They will invent motivations in the absence of input from you via being in the group and talking frequently. Some people will default to "shy" as a motivation (for not talking) but not necessarily.
If you suddenly talk to somebody once they are alone who you don't talk to routinely even though you see them often, there can be a suspicion of "what does she want from me? Why did she wait to get me alone?" Amongst a bunch of moms at a kid's party it will be a suspicion of something not particularly nefarious, perhaps she wonders if you got her alone to accuse some third kid of bullying yours and are looking to her for backup, or you want her to drive your kid to school but will offer nothing in return or some other minor thing which she nevertheless wants to prevent from coming up in conversation.
You had no ulterior motive. You just wanted to make small talk because you percieved that was expected. But if you have never made small talk before, she may imagine an ulterior motive that required getting her alone and attempting to talk her into something she had no intention of doing or getting information she had no intention of giving.
There is no way to know if that was what was going on this particular time. But it is something that happens in some situations so worth being aware of.
Sometimes I think NTs are weirder than we are.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
If it had happened to me I'd just put it down to her being an ignorant woman, not be surprised as it's a common way for people to act and never give her the opportunity to snub me like that again. Her card would be permanently marked as 'Waste of time - Avoid!'.
I'm not a mother though so I don't have any responsibility to socialise my child so it's not the same.
You can see why motherhood wouldn't have worked well for me and why I've always known I wasn't meant to have children.
I feel sorry for Aspies who have children as they are forced from necessity to socialise to ensure their child gets sufficient
social interaction.
You're not wrong there!
They are far more dangerous than we'll ever be, due to their motivations and reactions to things being far more primitive.
Many are more akin to chimps than humans - this is why they're best avoided.
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