24 May 2013, 9:51 pm
24 May 2013, 9:56 pm
24 May 2013, 10:07 pm
24 May 2013, 10:22 pm
24 May 2013, 11:12 pm
25 May 2013, 5:42 am
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25 May 2013, 11:59 am
25 May 2013, 12:22 pm
whirlingmind
Veteran
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,130
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
25 May 2013, 1:12 pm
littlebee wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Those videos were hilarious. I don't think they were about subtext (in subtext the unspoken really is supposed to be understood by the other person) and rather were about how people take great care to not communicate what they are thinking in an enviroment where there are high penalties for letting everybody know your every thought.
Saying what you are really thinking is great between partners, family, friends. But at work? NO. Saying exactly what you are thinking at work is perilous and can only be done in certain and rare situations. It is no coincidence that these vignettes are set at work. At work you must cooperate with people you may really dislike in order to get things done. But if you openly speak that dislike, nothing gets done (and that's the very least of the repercussions).
I can't call any of this subtext because subtext is still meant as communication. In these vignettes, you get thoughts spoken aloud standing in for what people actually say. Subtext can be figured out from the phrasing of what people say and how they say it and what their body language communicates and if that body language matches what they said. But here you don't know what the characters said so you don't know if there's a mismatch with body language (actually you do know, see footnote below) nor can you tell how they (would have) phrased things to communicate subtext. What you are actually getting here is literal mind reading, how a work environment would seem to somebody who was telepathic.
*Body language can be consciously controlled to prevent a mismatch between words and body language from revealing a person's inner thoughts. That is certainly happening in the videos (actors must master this or they look wooden). Part of the humour of the videos is that there is such a giant mismatch between body language and what they say. It is how you know you are hearing thoughts and not words. If there was no mismatch and the body language mirrored the words, it wouldn't be funny.
Saying what you are really thinking is great between partners, family, friends. But at work? NO. Saying exactly what you are thinking at work is perilous and can only be done in certain and rare situations. It is no coincidence that these vignettes are set at work. At work you must cooperate with people you may really dislike in order to get things done. But if you openly speak that dislike, nothing gets done (and that's the very least of the repercussions).
I can't call any of this subtext because subtext is still meant as communication. In these vignettes, you get thoughts spoken aloud standing in for what people actually say. Subtext can be figured out from the phrasing of what people say and how they say it and what their body language communicates and if that body language matches what they said. But here you don't know what the characters said so you don't know if there's a mismatch with body language (actually you do know, see footnote below) nor can you tell how they (would have) phrased things to communicate subtext. What you are actually getting here is literal mind reading, how a work environment would seem to somebody who was telepathic.
*Body language can be consciously controlled to prevent a mismatch between words and body language from revealing a person's inner thoughts. That is certainly happening in the videos (actors must master this or they look wooden). Part of the humour of the videos is that there is such a giant mismatch between body language and what they say. It is how you know you are hearing thoughts and not words. If there was no mismatch and the body language mirrored the words, it wouldn't be funny.
Wow. As soon as I started reading your post I thought "there is no way this person can be an Aspie", so I checked and you're not, which makes sense that you impressively understand all that. You are so lucky to get it all, well I don't know if lucky is the word, perhaps sometimes ignorance is bliss, unless it bites you in the ass.
Did not read any other messages on this thread yet, nor did I yet watch the video, but just read this message---don't know why---perhaps because I like the name Whirlingmind":-)
In any case, yes, this person did leave a very articulate well-thought out message, and thanks...
So, Whirlingmind, you think an aspie cannot do that? I have seen several incredibly articulate messages from various aspies clearly making many good points.
I will comment further on this thread after I watch the video, as I am very interested in this topic, but for now, many people, be they aspies or not aspies, generally are not able to comprehensively integrate various somewhat complex material.from many different angles. Why? Imo, they didn't learn how to do so, for whatever reason---perhaps their own individual intellectual capacity and/or poor quality of education, and also, they simply don't want to, and this could be for different reasons such as a one-sided, biased and limited view is buffering emotional pain, or maybe they are just not willing to put forth the effort to process material comprehensively, perhaps because they do not see much of a payoff, but be assured, there is a great payoff in learning how to think actively rather than just to label and react---some of the potential rewards of mental clarity---joy and freedom, and if a person learns how to articulate his own understanding in such a way that others can understand---he gains the ability to actually affect the world rather than just react and by reacting trigger reactions in others...
@agentpalpatine, it's because she was able to analyse in-depth, the social machinations that we as Aspies frequently can't...the clue is in the diagnostic criteria. It's not an insult, just a fact. Of course, there will be variability in that between Aspies, but nonetheless, it's a fact that we have deficits in this area.
Thanks littlebee. I'm honoured that you like the name and read my post
I certainly do think Aspies can and do leave articulate and well thought out posts (and I hope I'm one of them!)...not sure why you understood that as my meaning. My point was what I said to agentpalpatine, that Janissy understood what was going on and why, in all that depth.
25 May 2013, 1:20 pm
25 May 2013, 6:02 pm
Janissy wrote:
Although I don't think it's as broad as all businesses
Are we simply discussing the “darker side” of human behavior? If so, this ugliness occurs beyond the world of business/commerce (something that I suggested above). Rather, it seems to occur in any human interaction where individuals are vying for access to scarce resources (be it money, power, control or simply a better place in line in the grocery store).
I feel this "darker side" all the time. When at work (well, when I was working, as I am now unemployed). When making big purchases. When someone is offering me services at my home. Even when trying to navigate around a busy supermarket. In all situations, I feel like I am being subject to constant manipulation.
The workplace is the most obvious situation. And, most certainly neurotypicals are the best equipped to rule in these situations.
I absolutely hate feeling that I am being taken advantage of. While I have the mental capacity to recognize what is happening, I do not have social skills to effectively fight back.
More of my random rants for the day –
25 May 2013, 6:29 pm
Rocket123 wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Although I don't think it's as broad as all businesses
Are we simply discussing the “darker side” of human behavior? If so, this ugliness occurs beyond the world of business/commerce (something that I suggested above). Rather, it seems to occur in any human interaction where individuals are vying for access to scarce resources (be it money, power, control or simply a better place in line in the grocery store).
I feel this "darker side" all the time. When at work (well, when I was working, as I am now unemployed). When making big purchases. When someone is offering me services at my home. Even when trying to navigate around a busy supermarket. In all situations, I feel like I am being subject to constant manipulation.
The workplace is the most obvious situation. And, most certainly neurotypicals are the best equipped to rule in these situations.
I absolutely hate feeling that I am being taken advantage of. While I have the mental capacity to recognize what is happening, I do not have social skills to effectively fight back.
More of my random rants for the day –
We live in a culture where interaction is increasingly governed by bureaucratic rules, the framework of the "free market", rather than treating others as individuals with dignity. As long as you follow "the rules" it doesn't matter how you actually treat others. There is nothing wrong with stepping over others to get ahead as long as you don't break the letter of the law. The thing is the worse this culture gets the more people are going to start saying "f**k the rules" and revert to overt criminality. If the economy collapses society will revert to people acting like packs of starving dogs fighting and clawing over scraps of meat.
05 Nov 2015, 10:24 pm
05 Nov 2015, 11:05 pm
ProbablyOverthinkingThisUsername wrote:
Generally how I see NT's.
Pay no attention to the writing on the wall,
The words seem empty 'cause there's nothing there at all...
And I like you too!
It's because we speak totally different languages - neither is wrong, just different.
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