AS/HFA: The difference

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Just trying to let him know why it was my post was the way it was. All information is helpful. If someone doesn't like one of my posts I would hope they'd be frank and forthright with me about it. Disputes and problems aren't resolved by tiptoeing around them.
Btw, I was just told that my mother modified a version of Ian Hunter's techniques to use when I was growing up. Has anyone heard of Ian Hunter's techniques being used for autistics? I've never even heard of him. Turns out his techniques are for brain damaged patients than specifically for autistics.

Ah I see - I wasn't disagreeing with your quote, I was disagreeing with the notion (as seems commonly used to explain HFA vs AS - NOT by you, just generally!) that language delay is somehow a separate thing that can be either on or off, like a "cause" of HFA vs. AS.

I should've worded this better!



Basically I was first asking where you got the data from (50% of HFA nonverbal) because even for ALL autistics (Kanner) that figure isn't this high, let alone for HFA.

THEN I was saying that I do like your ideas though (in spite of doubting the figure you quoted).

THEN I was taking issue with what is GENERALLY said about language and AS/HFA (which your first post seemed to address in a more sensible way than is generally used, hence me liking your ideas) BECAUSE I do not believe that language problems CAUSE (even partly) HFA but are a symptom of the underlying mechanisms behind autism.

Does this make more sense? The clue is in where the comma is - it is AFTER "though", i.e. it is part of "I like your ideas". The disagreement with the common "language as a difference" idea was shared with your post, and meant to back up my agreement. Seems the way I worded it, it came across exactly the opposite! Oops

Last edited by Noetic on 04 Apr 2005, 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

'T was just a misunderstanding due to me wording a post particularly badly, as it turned out!

(Typical! I only recently mentioned elsewhere how, among Aspies, I had got really good at spotting where things were misunderstood - seems this time it took me ages!! !)

I guess we're both on the same wavelength
Its amazing the difference a couple of words can make. Add one word, and change some punctuation:

I like your ideas, though. I also disagree with saying "language defines whether you have HFA or AS".

and there's no imagined slight possible.

This right brain/left brain stuff is really interesting, but it's making me question some of the things I'd previously thought. My brain is nearly perfectly balanced between right and left, and I've always felt "bilingual" in terms of proficiency in right brain or left brain subjects... yet I still have an autism spectrum diagnosis. I've speculated that it might be related to issues connecting left brain and right brain processing. I can analyze any given problem in right brain mode or left brain mode, but I have a lot of trouble forming one coherent picture from the results. (This can make decision-making interesting, when one half of your mind is telling you to do one thing, and the other half telling you to do the opposite, and you've got no clue who to believe...)

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've been pretty stressed and busy all weekend. NORMALLY I read through my posts to avoid any possible miscommunication - this is a perfect example WHY it is necessary!

Yes, I have always felt that way, although I don't have any choice as to which mode I am in at any given time.

I think some of this is covered here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... pic&t=1586

Thanks for the link. Do you know where she talks about this? I'd be very interested to look it up.

Only occasionally, in some of her books. I do wish she'd write more about this! You might drop her an Email (addy on the site below), consultations und 15 minutes are free.

http://www.donnawilliams.net/

Well it's morning now and I've had some sleep. I was really exausted and delirious last night so I'm sorry for my words too. I know you needed to point out where you were coming from Danlo. I was not singling any one out, I was sprouting off generally. I really like this thread and you guys and Ghost Hunter (where is he?) too, as well as everyone else I can't think of their names yet that has contributed.

I have not heard of Ian Hunter Danlo. I wish that my mum knew more when I was younger. I would have loved deep pressure therapy of some sought. I still would actually. Hey, I just realized something. When I was with my ex a few years back, I would sometimes get so stressed and my autie traits would become very prominent. (They scared me then though because I had no idea what this behaviour was).

Anyway I would stim and grunt and have that one repetative word thing going on. I would lie down to try and control myself. My girlfriend's dog didn't take long to clue into me. He would come and plonk his big body over the top of me, and I would not be able to move from his weight. And the pressure from him was awesome! It would not take long for me to settle back down with him doing this.

ElfMan

This has always been an interesting topic for me, because I'm honestly not sure where I fall on the spectrum. I spoke at a normal age, but had the hyperlexic aspects of the autism spectrum (was reading before age 2), and I still find speaking to be far more taxing than writing.

Being HFA myself,

My experiences and mental thinking from my older childhood years onwards was pretty much identical to that of AS kids.

The different subtypes of Autism, LFA, PDD-NOS, AS and HFA are just categories for diagnosis. While all Autistics have their differences, they do have a lot of similarities between each other.

I was walking by 12 months (maybe earlier), strangely yet I did not learn to talk until the age of 3 or maybe 4.

The only difference everyone can seem to agree on is diagnostically: that according to the DSM and ICD, Aspies cannot have a significant language delay. Not that everyone agrees with it's accuracy. But every can agree that that is supposed to be the "stipulation".

Everything else is up in the air.

How late do you have to learn how to talk for it to be a significant delay?

My dad said I wasn't talking very much until I was about 3. He said that I learned to read and to talk around the same time.

The DSM says singles words by age 2 and communicative phrases by 3. But many kids are sorta borderline on this and it ends up being up to the diagnostitician. Sometimes, I think, if it's hard to tell they try to find out what other communication problems there were.

For those borderlinish individuals, these two criteria are laid down:

b) in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

c) stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

Again, these aren't always so helpful because they can all depend on interpretation as far as how much inability to initiate or sustain conversation or how stereotyped or repetitive or idiosyncratic the language there needs to be to qualify. How much is how much?

As I said before, it just comes down to the diagnostitician. I know a guy who was diagnosed with Aspergers but he had no words until age 3, not even single words. According to the DSM, he should have received HFA. But it just depends on who's doing the diagnosing.

I have read a study which contrasted and compared Aspies with HFAers and in the end, they really didn't find many differences (except that Aspergers seems to be even more familial than Autistic Disorder). They were more similar than different, while some between the groups were almost identical. Nobody really knows what the difference is past childhood.

I think this is because of the spectrum between us, that Autistic Disorder can run in to Aspergers, with many people in that blurred area where HFA ends and Aspergers begins.