What do NTs hate so much about us?

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What does swot mean?

I don't think it's you.

Old school english

Hello Joe, I think the thing here is that modern English society has switched into a generally state of paranoia. Most people now don't want to register people they don't know. In other words, it's not you, it's all down to them.

Thank you!

When I was little I would only wear clothing that my best friend gave me (hand me downs) because she was "cool" and so I though the clothing was "certified cool". Except it was what she had been wearing a year ago... when she was a year younger... but I didn't understand that little kid clothes were different. I tried to mimic people for a while (and a bit even now, sometimes, like at a restaurant I will often order the same thing as whomever is sitting next to me, unless I know the place well. I failed miserably at mimicry. I thing it would be super cool to be a doctor, with medial stuff being one of my special interests, but I am going to be an Anthro/Archeo/(psych?) PhD. I think it would be cool not just to have a mentor not only who is field- specific, but who can help college age Aspies in general. Like a person who can say to me, "Been there, done that! Here's how..."

I have a feeling this is the case with me. I might appear aloof or standoffish sometimes, especially in situations where people are acting especially lucid or spontaneous or goofy and I have no bloody clue how to react so I just freeze, but I'm actually a really friendly and warm person. I really don't get it.

Sometimes I wonder, so I have these quirks. What's the big deal? I'm not hurting anyone. I'm not lying, or cheating or backstabbing, and I really never would. I think my autism gives me a greater degree of honesty, integrity, and genuineness/transparency as I can't get away with lying or cheating or backstabbing even if I wanted to (and I've been hurt too many times to ever want to). And yet there are people who lie and cheat and backstab in my class and that's totally okay, but just being "slightly off" is a total dealbreaker, a one-way ticket to social ostracism? I really don't understand. Maybe it's a different value system, but if it is I find it quite skewed IMO. My boyfriend calls these people "picky little jerks" as he (also an aspie) doesn't see what the big deal is with our minor quirks either.

I had a lousy time in high school but joined a group of misfits/outcasts, which included other aspies and a few LGBT. The same happened in college but my circle was a bit larger and more "normal". I moved away for medical school to my fiancé's hometown so we have a couple of his high school friends who haven't moved away yet. The problem with medical school is that everyone seems perfectly cookie-cutter, there ARE no outcasts. (If someone striked an interviewer or school official as an outcast they wouldn't get in, like how I was rejected post-interview at three schools, two out of three of which were for these reasons). And given the stressfulness and intensity of the curriculum I'm ALWAYS with my classmates, and don't have the option to socialize outside of school much at all.

Unfortunately I lack my own social intuition so I basically just follow algorithms that have been drilled into me through experience over the years, and imitate what others around me are doing / how they are reacting whenever I am unsure of what to do next (which is upsettingly often). I think what my real problem is that I talk too much about facts/ideas than about people/emotions/whatever NT people talk about.


that just about sums up my life. I try to dress stylish to compensate for my being nerdy or awkward in other ways. I love fashion (I don't go overboard or experiment; I'm quite conformist in my fashion choices). The few positive comments I get from NTs are "Ohmigod I love your dress where did you get it?" Clothing, accessories and makeup are about the only ways I naturally know how to conform with. My parents are both in the fashion industry so they are on top of things, which really helps.

And yet, as normal as I may appear, people who barely know me sometimes give me cues showing me that something is off with me, and that they are confused/uncomfortable. Maybe my smiles are seen as creepy? Maybe my body language is slightly off? Maybe I was supposed to shake the person's hand/greet them hello/hug them but I didn't and they took that as an insult (I'm bad at determining the right time / place for physical affection, so I just avoid initiating it altogether, which might make me look stiff or cold or even snobbish. The only person I ever feel a natural urge to give affection to is my fiancé.) I watched the Temple Grandin movie recently and thought Claire Danes did a pretty good job at demonstrating the inherent awkwardness that Temple exudes when just walking around, which is objectively normal but subjectively there is sort of a deviant, awkward je-ne-sais-quoi. Maybe she's more fidgety, maybe her voice intonation is a bit off, maybe she has poor volume control.... so while objectively she may cover all the bases in such social contexts, subjectively it is obvious she is not like the others. Small details such as the increased amplitude of the sine wave of a handshake can immediately alert people to differences. It really frustrates me why I can't be seen as normal.



Nerd, teacher's pet, know-it-all. Kind of like how I was in high school

Last edited by aspieMD on 08 Aug 2013, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm a lot more relaxed in groups because I'm more of a listener and a watcher. I could very happily be with a group of people all day long and never utter a word.

Nerd, teacher's pet, know-it-all. Kind of like how I was in high school [/quote]lol!! thanks!

Sometimes I tend to let others subtly act not-nice to me only because I really do not know what else to do. Then they learn it's OK to do it to me (but it's not!) and hence the cycle. I guess I should try harder to not try to impress, or be overly kind, to people who probably do not like me.

To commiserate here....there's another PhD student (one year behind me) in my research group who hates me. She's bullied me hard too and I let her because I have no recourse. A year ago the other student (who had always been my friend) finished her PhD. Of course, I gave her a nice card and our research group pitched in for a nice gift. Anyway, the bully-student made elaborate arrangements for a PhD party during normal daytime work hours, inviting our supervisor and both post-docs. That is, everyone except me She purposefully excluded me. Now, if it were an after hours private party, then OK (sort-of) but her actions were obvious. Oh, then she had the audacity to post party pics for me and everyone to see. So NT exclusion can be very real, hurtful and really unprofessional.

That's a tough subject and actually I think this just counts for all people in general and not so much NT's.

I'd rather phrase it as "why are people sometimes annoyed with me or seem like they are?" I doubt you will ever find out unless you ask them very straight forward.

Your question reminds me of a situation I had when I was an intern in an IT department on a school.

The first weeks the employee I had to work together with was very aggravated towards me, and I couldn't put my finger on it.

I tried many things to act more "normal", but one day when it still wasn't working out and he had just responded very angry, I asked him "what is it about me that annoys you so much?", and for a minute he just stared at me and seemed a bit flabbergasted, he then said he never really thought about it, and then started thinking on it and gave me some clues, I then thanked him for that and said I would try to be more aware of it, and for the rest of the half year I worked there we actually got quite friendly towards each other, and even though we still had a occasional run in, it was a whole different experience.

People always say that people with autism need everything to be clear and logical, but I think that counts for almost all people but some are just not aware of it, and breaking the barrier between yourself and another person can give tremendous insight in the reasons why you do not get along, if the other person is open-minded to it and that counts for yourself as well of course.

Ask yourself the question "do I sometimes treat people differently because they fit the profile of a person I already know?" and then validate if that way of behaving towards them is actually justified because sometimes I find myself being cold towards someone who actually doesn't deserve that at all.

Sometimes the smallest bit of your behavior that does not even have to be your autistic traits can remind someone of a person they do not like and they apply that profile on you.

Sigh. I totally feel your pain as I've dealt with people like that. And it's true:



Exactly this!! ! I wonder what NTs do when people give them looks like that! Because it seems to make them stop.... And yet aspies let themselves get walked all over, and of course if you do nothing it appears as if you missed the cue entirely and will make you look even more out of it, resulting in the group being even more overt about your exclusion, which again forces me to do nothing as I don't know what else to do which causes them to think even lower of my social decoding ability... Causing me to appear even more different, and you get a vicious spiral of it getting worse and worse until suddenly they start doing the obvious (like the party you mentioned) at which point you feel more stuck than ever. You have to look normal while still maintaining dignity. It's really hard!! I've been there.

Oh yes, what's hardest about maltreatment &/or social bullying is that there is never definitive proof. That is, if someone steals something then there are clear consequences: stealing is a crime. Yet someone can commit social atrocities with likely worse consequences yet there's nothing, absolutely nothing, that can be done about it. Sure, I guess we could call them on it, or report it, but that oftentimes makes the situation worse. Sigh.

That's first class scum bag behaviour there. Did anyone else ask why you weren't going?

One of our post-docs is very kind. They did not exactly know that the bully-student had not invited me. Just prior to their leaving for the restaurant, my post-doc friend pulled me aside and said, "I'm inviting you right now." I thanked her (kind-of teary-eyed) but added that I had not been invited. I was alone in the lab/office the rest of the afternoon.

Personally, if I were a PhD supervisor and knew that this was occurring, I would certainly have addressed it. Not only is it cruel, it's terribly unprofessional.

Without regard to the OP, even if I personally did not like someone, I would positively never not invite someone to a professional function.

Hey aspieMD! Your post made me extremely sad! I'm an NT, and I can say that most NT's do not hate aspies at all. Of course there are those who have no sympathy whatsoever who hate pretty much everyone. But anyways, the issue that NT's have towards aspies is a lack of clear understanding, and that goes for aspies who don't understand NT's. There seems to be a wall that is built up between NT's and aspies, and because of that any sort of relationship is going to be very hard. NT's like their friendships to be easy, and there is very much an emotional component in that friendship. NT's tend to gravitate to those of similar interests, and to whom we can pour out our emotions to when need be. NT's just don't know how to reach out sometimes because we are afraid of doing something that might make you upset, or we just don't have the energy to figure out an aspie's complex world. A lot of the time NT's don't think you them, or are interested in doing things with them.
I know you said you've had therapy to help learn better social skills, and that you don't stim in public, and that you're nice to people.... However, like you said NT's bond differently than aspies, and like I said earlier.... NT friendships are built on a mutual understanding of emotions.
I also want to state that there are a lot of NT's who wish to reach out to aspies and others with disabilities, but don't know how. I also want to say that Facebook is notorious for making people feel bad about themselves when comparing their life to others. The truth is that these people who seem to have it all, and their life together really don't.
As for me if an aspie showed any interest in being my friend, than I would be there friend. But they may need to reach out to me first.