Cannot grasp the concept of faith....could it be my AS?

Post Reply New Topic

Little Bee flew away.

I would like to revive this almost 6 month old thread and I hope it is okay. The reason I stopped posting here and I am assuming some other people did, too, was because of the video which precedes this message which is extremely derogatory and ends with extremely foul vulgarly attacking language used in a very vehement way. I stopped posting because I did not want to encourage anyone interested in religion or trying to have some kind of faith in order to help them through great suffering to come to this thread, as then more people would have listened to this tape. I have thought many times of complaining to a moderator and struggled again and again with doing so, but I did not want to encourage any more censorship on WP then there already is.

The reason I have come back is actually threefold. One--I realize that this thread is getting old. I always did intend to come back some day when I resolved my internal conflict and the other day this old thread thing which I was completely unaware of came up, and I do not want this thread roll in the old thread graveyard because I am such a whimp that a stupid video stopped me.

Secondly a message I wrote today http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6002094.html#6002094 and also a message on the previous page caused me to remember how much faith (not belief in an external deity, though for some it could be that) helped me through horrible suffering.

And thirdly, have been watching this t.v. series Dexter in which one female character uses the F word so very much, and I do mean very much, that I have literally become desensitized to it. You would have to have watched this show to understand. I never have actually had a problem with the F word per se, and have used it on rare occasion, and have no problem with reading a phrase like what the F on WP. It is the f u said with such spite and vehemence at the end of this tape that stopped me, again because I do not want other people who are struggling to find solace in their religion to hear it. At this point I am not even requesting this tape be removed, though I suggest for anyone reading this not to listen to it. I will say it is against my own personal religion to ditz other people's religions, and I think it is avery wrong thing to do..

The previous message explains why I returned to this thread, but I do recommend not to watch the video.To continue where I left off, but with more understanding and a better ability to articulate: I began to realize yesterday and even more so today that faith is what got me though horrible suffering. Before this when I was posting here previously I just liked religion and was trying to have more faith myself plus encourage people to use religion as a resource. I never even realized how much faith I had, but this faith was not fully developed as I had great anxiety and still do, though not as much.

I would greatly encourage any suffering person to try to develop faith, and to the many intelligent people here who are students of Zen Buddhism, I previously did research and actually many though not all Zen teachers talk about the aspect of having faith as an integral component of that particular Buddhist approach..

the thing I realized literally right now is that anxiety and faith are physically incompatible, and this may be one reason why an autistic person may have trouble developing faith and why I am so immature in this aspect.

I think one definition of faith could be something like this---taking a conscious step in the present based on what ones knows into the next 'moment' without fear of the unknown. In other words, one takes a step from (ones own) Being to the next progressive stage of Being.

So why might it be more difficult for an autistic person to be able to do this, assuming it even is more difficult?

To continue, and this is especially for the op, people associate the concept of having faith with religion, as this is the general context this concept has been framed in, and what happened on this thread with me, imo, is that I was using religious terminology to talk about faith, and other people were taking this religious symbolism as literal (when I in no way was) which is not that unusual a thing to do, as many people following these various religions do take this kind of material literally, also, and then impose this ridiculous stuff on others and even kill people because of it. The reason I used this kind of terminology (aside from being a religious scholar of sorts:-) and always being very interested in religion, meaning just about any organically evolved religion which is developed in a specific culture over a lengthy time span and is assimilated into that culture and further shapes that culture) is it made sense to me to discuss this subject from the angle of religion, as not only did this related back to the question of the op, but also these various religions are very good at talking about what faith is. However this made it all the more difficult to sort out.

The question does come up of what actually is faith. The op started this thread because she is interested in looking at how the autistic mind and brain function in relationship to having faith, but there is also some kind of implication that there may be value to having faith, so I am going to focus on specifically answering the op's original question.


There IS obviously something 'wrong' with them for taking that kind of material literally, if all of them even do., though it is a subjective and contextual matter who is actually wrong. What I italicized is a point which I am going to go into in great detail in a message to follow. Secondly, yes, why would you want to associate with people who are that dumb? But what if most everybody is 'dumb'? The thing is, a person can get great satisfaction from cuddling a cat and trying to relate to that cat. There can be a deep generative relationship there...two of the most profound relationship of my life were with cats...not to say these cats weren't smart in their own way...and more on this to follow...



Obviously you know that this material is not literally true, so you seem to be implying here that you are taking it literally that they are all taking this material literally, and there is something or other about this whole phenomena that you are missing. I think this may be the problem, but I am in no way suggesting you hang out with these people in their religion. Do not do it unless it is interesting to you. Personally I never go to any kind of places of worship, but just to various teachings (if even that anymore, as I found out what I wanted to know) or discussion venues, though I used to love to go into houses of worship when I was in my teens and early to mid twenties. And some of them probably are taking it literally, but it does not mean that you yourself have to or that you have to join their institution.

Personally I believe that people do need religion, that religion is of great functional value for humans beings, but it is also possible to live ones life in a spiritual way, so as a religious person, and a candle does light up for a lot of people from this angle, especially these days when people are more educated, but I think that can be a very weak flame that any passing breeze can blow out, and this is what I would like to enquire into. .

Yeah it applies to me, I don't have faith.
Actually I don't understand the concept of religion. I mean, I do understand religion, but as an institution that have functions in societies, like I understand all the other social stuff. I don't really get it. For me it makes absolutely no sense and I don't know why other people believe in it if it doesn't make sense. I have philosophical discussions with my NT best friend which is very religious, but in the end we always come to a contradiction or nonsense in her religious views. Then she says: "I don't know, you just have to believe it." or "I don't know, but you have to trust God" or "I can't explain, you have to feel it". I respect but for me it is like ??????
also for me it is really obvious that religions change depending on society and culture rather than being an absolute truth. I don't see how people can't see it.

"I learned in life that generally people that want to share their religious views with you don't want you to share your religious views with them" Veríssimo (brazilian writer)

I've always found religion to be a difficult thing to understand, and I'm not one to blindly believe in something I don't at least somewhat understand, so I don't follow a religion or believe in anything of a metaphysical/supernatural nature, whether it be deities, the afterlife, spirits, etc. It was a liberating feeling when I discovered one day, back when I was 12 that it was perfectly OK to not have a religion. I just wish other people would understand that I don't understand religion or want to follow it.

When I say that I don't understand religion though, well, that's an oversimplification. My (fairly biased) understanding of many organized religions are that they are a way of "explaining the unexplainable", for people who are unwilling to accept anything else, as well as a form of social control, to ensure that the powerful stay powerful, and the less-powerful stay less-powerful. Now, not all religions are like this, but it just seems to be a trend among the more popular ones (namely Christianity, Islam, etc.)

aspieMD - Faith can be hard for an Aspie to grasp, since we seal with particularities and have difficulty with transcendent realities. For me, it was philosophy (the Aristotelian tradition) which prepared my mind to accept the existence of an unseen Cause. Once you grasp the fact that no physical being can be the cause of its own existence (and that no other existing physical being can be its ultimate cause - otherwise reductio ad absurdam - then you can be open to the concept of a God who is uncreated and non-material.

As for faith, it is a gift from God, but it is actualized in a person by an act of the will. In other words, the only way to accept any religion is to will yourself to accept it, and then (like an experiment) see if your interior life changes in any way.

"Will myself" to accept it? Sorry, but my mind doesn't work that way.

Yeah, this is exactly my understanding.

As for needing to "will yourself to believe," well, if there is no proof of something, then in my mind, willing myself to believe is akin to duping myself. And that's not something I feel is ethically responsible.

Mine doesn't either.



Wow, I seriously adore you guys, I finally feel like I'm among members of the same species!

I totally agree!

I understand. My mind doesn't work that way either. It took me three years of intellectual agony to choose to move my will in the manner I am describing.

I believe in god(loosely,barely),but the bible is SH*T!! !

But why did you do it?

I know! It is beyond me how anyone in their right mind can actually believe that BS.

It's all due to the NT desire to be communal, to belong somewhere, and seek something beyond themselves. It's cognitive dissonance and intellectual manipulation, which people with AS are incapable of doing in good conscience because we value truth over harmony. It's just the way we're wired.

Read through the 17 pages, and a I did not see a scientific perspective mentioned ...

The magnificence to the order and function of the atomic and quantum levels make me think might be a "mastermind" that created matter.

I like how Einstein referred to GOD, as "the old one". The phrase connotes an abstract entity , not affiliated with religions, that is the thing that is the mastermind behind the creation and function of matter.