Is Aspergers Syndrome more disabling than Down Syndrome?

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Thank you naturalplastic, very good post.

I think you are right on the emotional stress.

Penn State University published a research report last week that children with autism spectrum disorder are 25 to 30 times more likely to contemplate suicide than children without autism spectrum disorder - i personally don't think suicide is disabling but others might

I definitely would believe those numbers.

Suicide not disabling? You mean when you are dead anyway? Or it is not disabling to have suicidal thoughts?

I've worked as a caretaker at a sheltered housing. Down's syndrome is a serious disorder, and the average IQ of an affected invidivual is 53. Whether or not a person with Down's syndrome is "happy" or not, depends on a lot of factors. First and foremost, it depends on whether he's aware of his own condition. Second, it depends on his surroundings; if he's surrounded by caring and loving people, he'll be happy--if he's surrounded by as*holes, he will not be happy. As a rule of thumb, pretty much anyone who falls into the mild MR category (85% of all mentally ret*d people) are aware of the fact that they're mentally ret*d. I've yet to meet a mildly ret*d person who's proud of his mental retardation.

While I'm not familiar with the American school system, a person with an IQ of less than 70, generally will not be able to adequately understand any curriculum past the 4th grade. If someone with a diagnosis of MR passes just one subject in 8th grade, the norm states that he needs to be screened again.

A person with Asperger's can work with the right facilitation and can also live independently, pay his own bills and have a family (a lot of the people on this board have proven this). There are currently no people with Down's syndrome in Norway employed in "regular" (i.e. non-sheltered) working conditions here in Norway. There's a whopping number of two mentally challenged people employed in normal jobs here, out of five million people.

You've not done much research into eugenics have you? Hitler didn't start the idea.

I don't really see much point to comparing the lives of people with Down's syndrome and autism. It doesn't really help treat people with either of the conditions, and desperately seeking to know which of us has it 'better' or 'worse' seems a tad juvenile to me. I'm more concerned with ensuring that all of us receive the accommodations and supports we're entitled to. Besides, I'm not sure if they can adequately be compared considering that the conditions are so different and both of them can vary so much.

No, that was Francis Galton.

My sped teacher friends have said they would take double amount of DS kids if they could lose one of the Aspie/Autism kids. Not PC, but I've heard that more than once.

Well, in the sense of being envious that they actually get help other than "You're smart, figure it out for yourself"....?

Don't you have anything better to do than cornering sensitive souls all day?

That was a good way of explaining it. I think im getting this concept better now.
Like someone with DS is less conscious of the world around them while the person
with AS kinda gets slapped in the face with it.
And i have that too to an extent. I have been sheltered and not had to deal with the world
at large so far. Even now that i am in public school, im still pretty sheltered.

Hitler just represents the "ultimate" of what our society represents: only the best race should survive - only in our society it is the people with highest social status that should survive.

We live in a Hitler society, always will. The weakest individuals are now what the jews were before.

Last edited by qawer on 17 Jan 2014, 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

The main cause of disability from Down's would be the intellectual disability (heart problems and whatnot can often be fixed nowadays).

So, it'd be the same thing as comparing basic mental retardation (usually mild to moderate) to someone with AS.

In that case, I'm guessing those with Down's may have a better "outcome" based on social contacts and gainful employment, overall. And IIRC, that seems to be the case from many of the studies I've read.

weird question...
downs is more disabling using both the social and medical models of disability as they have basic functioning difficulties although may still be under the label of high functioning,aspies only have functioning issues through other causes such as anxiety,executive dysfunction,never having been taught the right skills due to being misunderstood etc.

downs is obviously visible and many people with it also have significant health problems,they get heart issues and diabetes easily and because of their dna makeup are also prone to getting dementia prematurely.
whilst a lot of people on the milder end of the spectrum wish their asd was visible they dont realise the price that being visible to society costs,downs carries a huge stigma and people still judge their abilities purely on their look-they are spoken to with the same respect they give to children,aspies at least can blend in at a far better rate than adults with downs,even adults with mosaic downs [a mild form with less visible signs] dont have a very compareable history to aspies.
have been schooled with/lived with/been friends with people with both downs and mosaic downs and known many aspies-they have very different upbringings.
people with aspergers are very rarely under estimated in the way that people with downs are and this is what disables so many disabled people,have said a few times on here before but one lad with downs that used to live with was in his forties and he was in the low end of the high functioning bracket-however staff had a very different view of him and when he asked if he coud get his own laptop after trying mine out they said he had downs so he coudnt do anything for himself-at fifteen years of age he sucessfuly stole a milk float and drove it down the street,he has a sucessful relationship and is very smart in a lot of areas-its not the downs that disables him its the attitude from others.

That's just your opinion. I don't believe that there are weak people and strong people. I feel that all man is created equal. I feel that Hitler has done a lot of damage to the world. What era are you living in? I feel that all people who are conceived should have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't kill someone, just because they're handicapped. I feel that all people who are conceived and born are strong and everybody has the strength and will to survive. I don't believe that anybody is weak at all. God gives all people free will, whether they're disabled or not, and just because people are disabled in any way doesn't mean that they're weak. I also prefer the company of the special needs people that you call weak. I love special needs people so much, that I call them Sid after the Flushed Away character. I feel that it's very horrible the way the world thinks of special needs people. I don't see special needs as the weakest link. I see them as an asset to society. People are more important than money and people are money. The world needs special needs people. There are a lot of special needs people who work. Okay, maybe they don't work with the big guys. My point is that people with all disabilities should be born and they should be given opportunities to work for salaries. The hiring of all people helps the economy. I love special needs people. I don't see them as weak. That's why I'm against abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide. There is no surplus population and the world is going through a demographic winter. Everybody should be brought into this world. God makes no crap. This is just my opinion. There is also no such thing as a Master Race either and I hope it never gets to that point. The world would turn into a big gory mess if the legacy of the Holocaust was to continue. I'm sure that special needs people and seniors resent being called weak and their probably very angry that many people still see them in that light. Nobody on this planet is a Useless Eater in my opinion.

This is very true. It's important not to play down the medical aspect. The craniofacial abnormalities can cause problems as well- both with speech and with eating/swallowing. I knew a 6 year old boy with Down syndrome who was nonverbal and could only eat/drink from a bottle, and an 11 year old who could only eat pureed foods. My aunt with Down syndrome died at only 26 of kidney failure. Also, I think for someone who can mostly "pass" in casual situations and is used to having their abilities overestimated, it is easy to downplay the negatives of having people immediately judge you as less competent or less human based on your physical appearance. You wouldn't believe what cruel things people will say about those with Down Syndrome right in their presence, when they don't even know the person or anything about them (of course it would be even crueler if they knew them). And even if they aren't actively being cruel they will make snap judgments about their intellectual abilities that result in them treating the person as a lesser or less capable being. People in wheelchairs often get this reaction too. For example, they might be ignored by a store clerk who will then proceed to ask the person next to them about the disabled person's preferences, even when the disabled person tries to speak up for him or herself.

Hi CockneyRebel.

Just to make sure there is no doubt: I find that all men are created equal too. But society unfortunately disagrees with me!

I was simply concluding that we live in a society with a mentality similar to that of Hitler: people are not equal, some are weak, some a strong, we should ensure the strong survive, and not care about the weak (but I wholeheartedly disagrees with that!)

I think the fact that society has this attitude is awful, distasteful, terrifying, unfair, depressing, emotionally painful, and a lot more terrible things. I find that this attitude always is present underneath whenever there are strong, all-dependent group socialization: whenever it is considered fun to mock one another, Hitler-attitude on the low scale is present. It is awful.