people too quick to medicate

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Everyone in their own time, in their own way. I think this is suggested by your post, littlebee, and if so, I agree.

Great reconciling statement:-)--however it is necessary to never forget the suffering of others, and in fact to always remember it, I do not know about you, but I am not sure how many do, and I know I do not always remember, so maybe writing this will help me. There are so many characters in this world with lofty aims to help others but who are basically doing more harm than good in their attempt. Not meaning you, but maybe more than one of these kind of people are reading this, as after all, it is a very big forum that is interconnected with the world wide web.

I am interested in this subject because I happen to know an actual group of people who have made a particular practice and even a specialty of reconciliation to the extent that their potential grip has turned into slip.There is some virtue to it, but less then they think, as this slip creates a leak, just as does too much grip (or gripe:-), and maybe even more so, as it is very slick and pleasurable to the touch, much like the material satin.

But yes, everyone in their own time, in their own way, and thanks for the work you did on this thread. I still suggest that people encourage other people not to take medication if possible but to try to find other resources. Personally I think A LOT more people are harmed by taking these medications then would be harmed by not taking them. Therefore, according to my reasoning, which could be wrong, the slant should be toward not taking them.

I think initially people should be encouraged to use medications as more of a last resort, like where it is necessary. But if someone is taking a medication and it is working for them I can see why they'd be bothered by people 'encouraging' them not to use the medication that is helping them. Also medications alone aren't really a proper treatment it should be in combination with therapy...of course finding the right therapy or good therapy can be very hard. But at some point it does get to be someones personal business how they are having their condition treated so pressuring someone to change a treatment plan that is working is never a good idea. Of course some people are ignorant to the fact there are alternatives to medications that work for some people so nothing wrong with being informative but I have seen people get a bit pushy with their encouragement to not take meds Not saying you do this just have seen it happen a lot various places.

Story of my life. I've been on and off meds for depression, bipolar disorder, and anxiety my whole life because of misdiagnosis. No one thought I was on the autistic spectrum, just social anxiety. The only reason I have an appointment with a neuropsychologist now is because I asked my GP(well she's a PA but whatever) to write a referral.

A psychologist can't prescribe meds which will be great. I'm super sensitive to side effects of medicine of any kind. The only thing I can take right now is my Tramadol(leg pains) but everything else would make me suicidal, constipated, etc.

Your post made me think of how I identify as being on the spectrum as well as having bipolar disorder. As a child I was diagnosed as autistic as was involved in intensive, experimental behavioral therapy. As an adult, I was prescribed an anti-depressant to help with anger attacks and anxiety. As of a few years ago, I had my first manic episode (went months with 2-5 hours of sleep/night) which prompted a bipolar-diagnosis.

Now I take an antidepressant in the morning, and a anti-psychotic at night to quell the mania. It seems to be working well for me now. I agree that meds shouldn't be the first thing one goes to, but for some of us they are very helpful. I also go to therapy every other week and attend a support group for people who are depressed or have bipolar disorder.

Exactly!

They want you to feel better.

Back in high school I was stressed and depressed, but I had good reasons to be so - Having to wake up at ridiculous hours in the morning to catch the bus (I did not have a car), no friends, heavy courseload. Of course I was depressed. I was prescribed anti-depressants, which I continued for quite some time. My parents claimed they could tell when I forgot to take them (though that was usually the withdrawal symptoms), and a doctor even upped the dose after I had a rather stressful day at work and a mental breakdown. All the pills did was remove the symptoms - not the cause

Best decision I ever made was to quit taking them and let my internal chemistry get back into balance. Since then I have been much happier with myself

Very true--IMO, you SHOULD always start with the lowest dose. Safer that way, and less of a shock to the system.

On the contrary, I think that negative views of medication as a bad thing are so pervasive that people will spend inordinate amounts of time moralizing about how it needs to be a last resort or how people should go through talk therapy instead or how doctors are too quick to prescribe meds. Or in general just complain about what other people who are not them are doing, even though their medical treatment is between them and their doctor, not everyone else who thinks that antidepressants are bad or whatever.

How about this: Many people have problems that have been approached in a variety of ways, and often the best method has turned out to be medication. For them.

As far as starting with lower doses and increasing them, that's normal practice. It's called "titration."

medicine works on certain problems, but the overwhelming majority of psychological problems don't respond to medicine. what is the solution to someone who was abused, raped, or neglected and has problems due to that? where's the pill for that? Where's the pill for multiple personality disorder? Where's the pill for autism? For antisocial personality disorder? For gender dysphoria? For dementia? Even with schizophrenia, the pills don't work on the negative symptoms, only on the positive symptoms (the hallucinations). Bipolar is the only condition I know that is absolutely medically controlled. Severe depression (the worst cases) need medicine. Milder forms of depression don't. There's non-medical ways to deal with anxiety, although medication is valid if it helps more than it harms.

The damage of relying on medicine to deal with non-medical problems is that a person does not find effective treatment. Unfortunately, the medical system in the U.S. is not set up for people to receive comprehensive mental healthcare. I don't know about Canada. Perhaps, on a practical level, some help is better than no help at all (pushing pills on people is likely to catch some people who need the medication). However, not every psychological problem is one where you can take a pill.

Let me give you an example. Is it better for a person to take anti-depressants and be zombified because they are going through hard times (times that would make anyone feel sad) or is it better for the person to try to change their living conditions so that they are no longer depressed? If you call the person's condition a disease to be treated by medicine and overlook the obvious situational factors that are leading to depression, you are just prolonging the person's agony. They will take their placebo, continue in their mundane condition, and wonder why they still feel depressed. I've been in this situation before, way over-medicated and the medicine didn't work. It made me suicidal, and I couldn't hardly function. Do you know why I was depressed? I didn't get enough sunlight. I used a full spectrum lamp and was functional for years without taking any psych. meds. I take psych. meds today for depression, and everyday I still think about killing myself. Is the medicine helping? It takes the edge off but that's about it. The overwhelming majority of work that I do to overcome depression is non-medical. It involves psychotherapy, meditation, mindfulness, CBT, exercise, socializing, and working to change things in my life that make me miserable.

I'll give you another example. This is a true story. A girl has PTSD from severe childhood abuse. She develops several addictions (sex, drugs, shoplifting) to cope with the PTSD. She sees a psychiatrist who puts her on benzos for her anxiety. Benzos (like Valium or Xanax work exactly the same way in your brain as alcohol. That's why they're so addictive That's why there's a huge black market for them so that people can get high off of them). Do you think this young lady was able to stay off illegal drugs and abstain from her other addictions being high on benzos all the time? Do you think she was able to address her childhood wounds and learn coping skills? No. The psychiatrist saw anxiety and prescribed a pill without knowing the full story. This lady has suffered serious consequences from the physician's ignorance. I'm not saying it was all his fault, but he certainly contributed to her self-destruction by giving her those pills. If he was knowledgeable about substance abuse, he wouldn't have prescribed her any controlled substances. She would have been more stable to confront her addiction issues and her PTSD (which triggers addictive behavior to control the anxiety).

I can give you other examples where taking somebody off of psych. meds. would cause problems. I am not arguing for the anti-pill crowd. I'm just saying that every case is different. Medicine is good in some cases, and in other cases, it isn't. In some cases, it can make things worse.

That's why psychiatrists prescribe anti-depressants in many cases. They reduce the symptoms enough for you to work on issues using non-medical means.

That's a very valid concern. In fact, I think your concern (people not being willing to take medication) is a real problem, just as much of a problem as people expecting medicine to cure everything. Psychotherapy is not going to cure someone who is severely depressed. You can't do psychotherapy if you are too depressed. My experience is that people who get that depressed are suffering from a physical problem, a problem that medication oftentimes can help alleviate. I also think your position is valid considering your history (medicine working for you when psychotherapy didn't).

I also agree that medicine shouldn't be a last resort. If it helps, why not try it? I just don't like doctors prescribing dangerous medicine (like stimulants, benzos, or anti-depressants) willy nilly without thinking about the specifics of each case. I guess looking at the specifics of each case is what differentiates a good doctor from a bad or mediocre doctor.

Last edited by em_tsuj on 10 Apr 2014, 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

The issue is situational depression does not go away, unless the situation improves if it doesn't then they can develop actual depressive disorders rather than symptoms that will go away when the situation improves...unfortunately doctors can't write a prescription for improving the situation(maybe they should). I think in these cases if a medication can help someone cope they should have access....but I disagree with having prescription drug advertisments on t.v and marketing such drugs like something that will make life wonderful.

I certainly understand how hard it can be to find proper therapy, I have yet to do so....and I've attempted it for years off and on. I've also tried plenty of meds that don't help any. Right now I am taking celexa, I have for 3 days at 10 mg and can't stop grinding my teeth...and it feels like a rather strong stimulant...5mg didn't do anything after a week including do anything for symptoms. So its hard finding medications that might help as well....cannabis helps relieve things but I get the impression its not regarded as a serious treatment for mental health at places I've been. Also though perhaps people need to be more aware of the fact that these meds are not a cure all, and really for the most part temporarily alleviate symptoms and many have dangerous side effects....I think doctors and patients as well need to be more cautious about what they prescribe or what they agree to put in their bodies(of course I know there are cases of court ordered meds).

I suppose I don't think I or anyone in general is in a position to judge what is working for someone else....unless of course it is obvious that individual is worse off then its best to try to help even if maybe they do get mad/irritated

Calling those particular medications "dangerous" is an extreme exaggeration. The most dangerous of the three are benzos, and that's due to rebound effects on withdrawal.

Tylenol's dangerous, it sends 78,000 people in the US to emergency rooms every year, and results in hospitalizing 33,000. I can't find a clear statement on number of deaths, but it does appear to be in the hundreds.

It should be emphasized that some of these drugs are so hard to withdraw from that people simply cannot....often doctors keep upping the dosage....these drugs can cause permanent tremors...this means a person will have these tremors for the rest of his life even if he stops taking the drugs...they can also cause liver damage....and turn people into zombies...you can see it by the walk...and all kinds of other stuff...as previously mentioned, they are often prescribed for teenagers who are having situational depression that will generally resolve itself at about the same time the medicine is supposed to start to kick in, leading to the false conclusion that the medicine is working...

https://www.google.com/#q=antidepressant+lawsuits

(Sweetleaf, I saw that your message seemed to be addressing in more detail the complexities of this subject....did not have the chance to really read it yet, but did when I glanced just now see the part that situational depression keeps coming back....yes, that makes sense...I thought of this when I made the original message, but it was too complex for me to handle at the time, so just left that out...(for now)...