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auntblabby
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29 Apr 2014, 11:58 pm

the point I tried to make but was ignored, was that some of us cannot help ourselves, no matter how much we may desire otherwise. I just attended the funeral of a group member who could not change their metabolism and so was morbidly obese, which killed this person. for somebody to suggest that this person "refused to help themselves" is frankly insulting. no amount of positive horatio alger thinking will change this.



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30 Apr 2014, 12:54 am

I assume you mean after you get out of high school, does life get better where people leave you alone and are not mean to you, yes. That has been my experience. I have not experienced bullying at work or any crap lot of aspies claim, people are not mean to me and they leave me alone. I don't get bullied either. I am shocked when I hear how immature people can be at work like I read in this one article by an aspie who has had jobs and he would get bullied until he quit an one of them was trying to set off his sensory issues or move his things and mess with his work area to watch his reaction. Really? I thought people would grow out of that nonsense when they are adults.

Sure you may still run into some ignorant folks but they will be in the minority. That has been my experience.


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pensieve
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30 Apr 2014, 1:38 am

aspieZim wrote:
it doesn't get better, not in my experience. but i think that's just me, if your aspergers gives you the gift of superior (135+) intelligence it does not get better. you'll reflect on everyday on what an NT will have experienced but as a aspie you have missed. that will tear you apart in the long run and make you miserable whenever you feel down. then you'd have to scramble to maintain a constant high so that doesn't happen.

i sometimes wonder if my aspie didn't gift me with higher intelligence, if i was just average, perhaps i won't feel this way, i won't yearn for the NT life that i do not have the ability to experience. in many ways my aspie has cost me my childhood and teen year,s it's like they didn't exist. it causes a gap in my life that i can't handle the responsibilities of my age because i have not experienced and grown when i was supposed to.


My 125 IQ makes me think about those things too.


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Rocket123
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30 Apr 2014, 2:15 am

aspieZim wrote:
it doesn't get better, not in my experience. but i think that's just me, if your aspergers gives you the gift of superior (135+) intelligence it does not get better. you'll reflect on everyday on what an NT will have experienced but as a aspie you have missed. that will tear you apart in the long run and make you miserable whenever you feel down. then you'd have to scramble to maintain a constant high so that doesn't happen.

i sometimes wonder if my aspie didn't gift me with higher intelligence, if i was just average, perhaps i won't feel this way, i won't yearn for the NT life that i do not have the ability to experience. in many ways my aspie has cost me my childhood and teen year,s it's like they didn't exist. it causes a gap in my life that i can't handle the responsibilities of my age because i have not experienced and grown when i was supposed to.


While I don't have the superior intelligence you write of, I have suffered through this same issue. I have spent the past year (since my diagnosis) trying to adjust both my perspective and values (in order to no longer strive to achieve the neurotypical lifestyle). As, for me, that is a losing proposition, which ultimately leads to anxiety + dysphoria.



Sweetleaf
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30 Apr 2014, 2:16 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Yes, if you work at it. Health (mental/physical) via diet & exercise, knowledge via studying/reading/learning/doing etc along with skills, accomplishments, happiness, wealth etc - everything can & does get better if you work at making it so. It doesn't just happen by magic. You've got to do the hard work. Nothing worth doing is easy, but the results of hard work are well worth it.


That's interesting, it hasn't worked that way in my life. I've worked towards making it 'better' but for all my efforts I certainly don't have much to show for it.


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Sweetleaf
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30 Apr 2014, 2:18 am

auntblabby wrote:
the point I tried to make but was ignored, was that some of us cannot help ourselves, no matter how much we may desire otherwise. I just attended the funeral of a group member who could not change their metabolism and so was morbidly obese, which killed this person. for somebody to suggest that this person "refused to help themselves" is frankly insulting. no amount of positive horatio alger thinking will change this.


I'd have to agree on that point.


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Catarina935
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30 Apr 2014, 3:08 am

It *can* get better, indeed, as you learn new ways to deal with most of life situations. Although how better it gets depends on many factors -physical health, having (or not having) a job, etc.



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30 Apr 2014, 3:33 am

Ah, the ultimate question that most youth ask themselves. I'm only 18 so my opinion is questionable.

But there is this old saying, "Life is what you make of it". I try not to think so much of the future

and instead just focus on what I can do in the present. Life is hard for an aspie, and there will

be some ignorant people who may not understand the way how you think. Easier said then done, but

just keep a healthy level of confidence, and keep on living. Someday, its going to be worth it. :)



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30 Apr 2014, 6:11 am

I would say that I have genuinely gotten over my aspergers, though I have had to work really hard on it, and I still showed signs of it well into adulthood (I'm now 34). I was diagnosed with it when I was a child, since I had almost all the classic symptoms of an Aspie, and my strange behaviour was picked up on even as far back as nursery school.

However I wasn't told till I was 14, and had NEVER heard that it was considered to be a lifelong condition until I recently did a little internet research. In fact I always felt like it was slowly getting better, and for the most part I believed that I would one day overcome it completely. This has proven to be true, since I'm pretty sure that I would now be considered NT in every single way. When I tell people I was diagnosed with aspergers as a child it is always a surprise to them, even those who are familiar with the condition. Alright, so I might still seem slightly absent-minded at times, once in a while I get a little obsessive about something, and on some days I might still feel slightly shy or socially awkward (happily I have also retained a good auditory memory and ability to spot patterns). But I'm pretty sure even these characteristics are now well within the NT range.

Looking back, I would say that I have worked on each aspect of my aspergers individually to a point, but that working on one symptom often had a knock-on affect on the others. For example it was accompanied by dyspraxia, and my parents had read that improving my hand-eye coordination ought to also improve other aspects of my condition(s). So we played a lot of tennis and I think it helped.

Learning social skills has been a long and painful, but ultimately rewarding process. I've always kept trying and practicing and slowly gotten better.

But here's where it gets interesting. There is something in particular which I have done, which most other aspies will not have done. It's an unusual thing which I am perhaps lucky to have stumbled upon, and I wonder if it might be key to overcoming my aspergers. It's basically a form of group therapy, which is extremely intense and even controversial. It involves shouting, screaming, extreme exercise and exertion, hugging, brutally honest sharing, confronting of personal issues, expressive dance and many forms of meditation, and all while purposefully deprived of sleep.

Somehow it worked for me. The lack of sleep and physical exertion seems to numb the logical brain somewhat, to the point where the physical, emotional and intuitive sides need to take control. The meditations/exercises stimulated so many emotions I'd never felt before, and I was then able to practice the application of these emotions in a safe and controlled environment - they seemed to be key to making non-verbal connections with people, enabling me to register non-verbal cues on an emotional level. Gradually I was able to integrate these emotions into my day to day functioning.

Another important choice I have made is in working as a complementary therapist, which I did partly because I knew it would challenge me and force me to develop in areas I had difficulties. I did this after the group therapy described in the last 2 paragraphs - previously it might have been a bit too much for me. It is something which involves a lot of physical contact, and where well social skills, small talk and empathy are important. Now after years of practice I have (I think) actually gotten pretty good at these things.

There are many other things that I feel have helped me too - EFT, self-hypnotherapy, exercise and good nutrition. But I think I may have already rambled enough :)



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30 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

JPS wrote:
I would say that I have genuinely gotten over my aspergers, though I have had to work really hard on it, and I still showed signs of it well into adulthood (I'm now 34). I was diagnosed with it when I was a child, since I had almost all the classic symptoms of an Aspie, and my strange behaviour was picked up on even as far back as nursery school.

However I wasn't told till I was 14, and had NEVER heard that it was considered to be a lifelong condition until I recently did a little internet research. In fact I always felt like it was slowly getting better, and for the most part I believed that I would one day overcome it completely. This has proven to be true, since I'm pretty sure that I would now be considered NT in every single way. When I tell people I was diagnosed with aspergers as a child it is always a surprise to them, even those who are familiar with the condition. Alright, so I might still seem slightly absent-minded at times, once in a while I get a little obsessive about something, and on some days I might still feel slightly shy or socially awkward (happily I have also retained a good auditory memory and ability to spot patterns). But I'm pretty sure even these characteristics are now well within the NT range.

Looking back, I would say that I have worked on each aspect of my aspergers individually to a point, but that working on one symptom often had a knock-on affect on the others. For example it was accompanied by dyspraxia, and my parents had read that improving my hand-eye coordination ought to also improve other aspects of my condition(s). So we played a lot of tennis and I think it helped.

Learning social skills has been a long and painful, but ultimately rewarding process. I've always kept trying and practicing and slowly gotten better.

But here's where it gets interesting. There is something in particular which I have done, which most other aspies will not have done. It's an unusual thing which I am perhaps lucky to have stumbled upon, and I wonder if it might be key to overcoming my aspergers. It's basically a form of group therapy, which is extremely intense and even controversial. It involves shouting, screaming, extreme exercise and exertion, hugging, brutally honest sharing, confronting of personal issues, expressive dance and many forms of meditation, and all while purposefully deprived of sleep.

Somehow it worked for me. The lack of sleep and physical exertion seems to numb the logical brain somewhat, to the point where the physical, emotional and intuitive sides need to take control. The meditations/exercises stimulated so many emotions I'd never felt before, and I was then able to practice the application of these emotions in a safe and controlled environment - they seemed to be key to making non-verbal connections with people, enabling me to register non-verbal cues on an emotional level. Gradually I was able to integrate these emotions into my day to day functioning.

Another important choice I have made is in working as a complementary therapist, which I did partly because I knew it would challenge me and force me to develop in areas I had difficulties. I did this after the group therapy described in the last 2 paragraphs - previously it might have been a bit too much for me. It is something which involves a lot of physical contact, and where well social skills, small talk and empathy are important. Now after years of practice I have (I think) actually gotten pretty good at these things.

There are many other things that I feel have helped me too - EFT, self-hypnotherapy, exercise and good nutrition. But I think I may have already rambled enough :)


8O, So about this therapy does it involve being shouted/screamed at? And how long is this sleep deprivation for? sleep deprivation actually causes brain damage especially if you're over-exerting yourself and using up what little energy you have. If anything the sleep deprivation and exhaustion probably just dulled your mind some. Either way that therapy sounds horrific and if I tried it it would probably just make my PTSD worse.

Also it doesn't sound like you're 'cured' you even mention that you still have some autistic traits....you've just learned to mask things reduce a lot of your negative symptoms and come off as more normal but I doubt your neurology has changed to neurotypical.

I just don't see how one can get over their neurology.


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aspieZim
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30 Apr 2014, 11:35 am

pensieve wrote:
My 125 IQ makes me think about those things too.


Rocket123 wrote:
While I don't have the superior intelligence you write of, I have suffered through this same issue. I have spent the past year (since my diagnosis) trying to adjust both my perspective and values (in order to no longer strive to achieve the neurotypical lifestyle). As, for me, that is a losing proposition, which ultimately leads to anxiety + dysphoria.


wow i didn't think anyone else shared the same problem i have. i find myself spending too much time thinking about my life if i didn't have aspergers and i makes me really sad



btbnnyr
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30 Apr 2014, 12:27 pm

Thinking more positively doesn't get anything done on its own, but it can give someone the motivation and ability to do things to improve their life. Even with a lot of supports, someone who thinks negatively is unlikely to improve their life.


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30 Apr 2014, 5:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
8O, So about this therapy does it involve being shouted/screamed at? And how long is this sleep deprivation for? sleep deprivation actually causes brain damage especially if you're over-exerting yourself and using up what little energy you have. If anything the sleep deprivation and exhaustion probably just dulled your mind some. Either way that therapy sounds horrific and if I tried it it would probably just make my PTSD worse.

Also it doesn't sound like you're 'cured' you even mention that you still have some autistic traits....you've just learned to mask things reduce a lot of your negative symptoms and come off as more normal but I doubt your neurology has changed to neurotypical.

I just don't see how one can get over their neurology.


The screaming/shouting I referred to is done as part of various cathartic exercises, with you doing the shouting, often while your partner shouts back at you. As for sleep, I think it's typically 3-4 hours per night, but it varies, and temporarily of course while you're doing a particular group/course. I know it sounds extreme and perhaps terrible, but it can also feel utterly amazing, and strangely it has seemed to improve my health if anything - I did it for over 2 years and it was the fittest I have ever been, and I never once got ill during a group. But, I can completely understand your skepticism. I can't be certain it's right for everyone or that it couldn't have any harmful effects, and I certainly won't try to convince you to go do it!

But this whole business with our brains being wired differently is interesting, and I simply do not agree that it should have to be unchangeable. Neurological research has shown that 80% of our brain is capable of rewiring itself, and continues to do so throughout our life. Genetic research has shown clearly that even a great deal of our DNA constantly changes throughout our lives, with countless potential results (this is a well established field called epigenetics).

Well-used neural pathways get stronger and more dominant, while neglected ones slowly die. So in a very real way, the more you use a certain behaviour, emotion, way of connecting with others etc, the more it becomes a part of who you are. Sure, I agree I can never become exactly the person I would have been without aspergers, like I was flicking an off switch. But nor do I think I am simply "masking" my symptoms.



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30 Apr 2014, 9:15 pm

aspieZim wrote:
wow i didn't think anyone else shared the same problem i have. i find myself spending too much time thinking about my life if i didn't have aspergers and i makes me really sad


I perhaps should have been a bit more clear. I more felt this way before I discovered Aspergers. And I spent a lot of time trying to understand what was "wrong" with me.

I am only now beginning to understand my deficiencies and the folly of having tried to live a neurotypical lifestyle with neurotypical aspirations. I listened to too many others, who offered advice about what I should be doing in my life.

Now, I am trying to become more accepting of who I am. And, I am not at all sad that I have Aspergers. As you don’t get to choose in life what maladies/conditions you are or become afflicted with. All in all, it could be much, much worse.



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30 Apr 2014, 9:22 pm

Most, if not all, of your deficiencies are correctible.

Don't think you have deficiencies; think you have advantages. People with Asperger's have advantages, as well as deficiencies.



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30 Apr 2014, 9:23 pm

JPS wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
8O, So about this therapy does it involve being shouted/screamed at? And how long is this sleep deprivation for? sleep deprivation actually causes brain damage especially if you're over-exerting yourself and using up what little energy you have. If anything the sleep deprivation and exhaustion probably just dulled your mind some. Either way that therapy sounds horrific and if I tried it it would probably just make my PTSD worse.

Also it doesn't sound like you're 'cured' you even mention that you still have some autistic traits....you've just learned to mask things reduce a lot of your negative symptoms and come off as more normal but I doubt your neurology has changed to neurotypical.

I just don't see how one can get over their neurology.


The screaming/shouting I referred to is done as part of various cathartic exercises, with you doing the shouting, often while your partner shouts back at you. As for sleep, I think it's typically 3-4 hours per night, but it varies, and temporarily of course while you're doing a particular group/course. I know it sounds extreme and perhaps terrible, but it can also feel utterly amazing, and strangely it has seemed to improve my health if anything - I did it for over 2 years and it was the fittest I have ever been, and I never once got ill during a group. But, I can completely understand your skepticism. I can't be certain it's right for everyone or that it couldn't have any harmful effects, and I certainly won't try to convince you to go do it!

But this whole business with our brains being wired differently is interesting, and I simply do not agree that it should have to be unchangeable. Neurological research has shown that 80% of our brain is capable of rewiring itself, and continues to do so throughout our life. Genetic research has shown clearly that even a great deal of our DNA constantly changes throughout our lives, with countless potential results (this is a well established field called epigenetics).

Well-used neural pathways get stronger and more dominant, while neglected ones slowly die. So in a very real way, the more you use a certain behaviour, emotion, way of connecting with others etc, the more it becomes a part of who you are. Sure, I agree I can never become exactly the person I would have been without aspergers, like I was flicking an off switch. But nor do I think I am simply "masking" my symptoms.


I suppose that makes sense, and when you said sleep deprivation I was thinking of like no sleep whatsoever not limited amounts of sleep..so now it doesn't sound quite as bad, still not sure if I would benefit from such a thing though. But yeah it could be more than masking symptoms, people with autism do have some room to change some things about themselves though I think how much one can change might depend on the individual. I mean I know I probably have better social skills than I did as a child but nothing close to the ability to interact normally.


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