Is trial&error the only way to learn if something's rude

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MatchingBlues
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29 Aug 2014, 9:22 pm

I remember some things I've done, recently and during adolescence, that make me cringe looking back.

In 7th grade we were assigned to research certain illnesses. The illness I was assigned to research was AIDS. We had to put a creative spin on the project using electronic media. I wanted to do some type of documentary short and asked my dad how I could "get permission" to interview AIDS and HIV patients at the military hospital. My dad coldly asked me, "Are you out of your mind? Do you really think someone who is going to die of AIDS would sit down, be all cheery, and answer your questions for your goddamned project?" He slapped me across the face and I am now extremely cautious about what I say and what I do regarding serious illnesses.

In 11th grade we had to do a project in English class involving satire and the commercialization of Christmas (Santa Claus, political correctness concerning "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas). Veering on agnosticism, I asked the teacher if we could also satirize Christianity (the 25th of December and Dionysus, stuff like that). I didn't know the teacher was devoutly Catholic. He sternly told me, "As a religious person, I'd be very offended by that." I'm now really cautious and always consider that someone could be devoutly religious.

My coworker's relative died and he had to leave for a good 5 days. I got an angry email from a client and in a panic, emailed it to him to address the issue while CC'ing my boss, who should have been directly addressed. I didn't want to bother her with it, but she told me these are things "the boss" does need to be bothered with, and that someone who is grieving for a deceased family member doesn't need to be bothered with this stuff.

Very recently I met up with some people I had gone to school with. They were all inquiring about how much student loan debt they were in. I thought this was one of those odd questions you don't talk about in casual conversation, so when someone asked me (It was someone I didn't care for), I returned her question by asking, "How many sex partners have you had?" I guess I was trying to express that the question was kinda inappropriate by asking an inappropriate question. I've avoided these kinds of get-togethers because they can be trigger mines.



hey_there
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30 Aug 2014, 4:06 am

MatchingBlues wrote:
I remember some things I've done, recently and during adolescence, that make me cringe looking back.

In 7th grade we were assigned to research certain illnesses. The illness I was assigned to research was AIDS. We had to put a creative spin on the project using electronic media. I wanted to do some type of documentary short and asked my dad how I could "get permission" to interview AIDS and HIV patients at the military hospital. My dad coldly asked me, "Are you out of your mind? Do you really think someone who is going to die of AIDS would sit down, be all cheery, and answer your questions for your goddamned project?" He slapped me across the face and I am now extremely cautious about what I say and what I do regarding serious illnesses.

Oh, wow. He could have just calmly explained that that wouldn't be appropriate and why. I don't think there was any need to slap you. :o



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30 Aug 2014, 10:35 pm

hey_there wrote:
Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?


There is also self-directed learning you can do. For example: one of the ways people can be rude is by saying something racist (EVEN if they didn't know it was racist-- intent is not magic and does not automatically absolve you of wrongdoing! Keep in mind that you CAN do racist things EVEN if you don't think you are.). So, how you would take it upon yourself to learn is look up "racism 101" on the internet. That way, you can study common mistakes people make and make note not to do those things yourself.

This is just one example. It's the same with "sexism 101", "ableism 101," "classism 101," "homophobia 101," "and transphobia 101," etc. These are good places to start learning. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, you are much less likely to say or do something offensive. You will also be able to recognize these things elsewhere in society and be able to point them out, "Hey, that's kind of rude. You shouldn't do/say that."

Just keep in mind that these are JUST THE BASICS and always be open and listen when someone tries to tell you that you have done something rude. There IS also more information out there, if you investigate a little bit online.

Hope this helps!



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30 Aug 2014, 11:19 pm

hey_there wrote:
Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?


There is also self-directed learning you can do. For example: one of the ways people can be rude is by saying something racist (EVEN if they didn't know it was racist-- intent is not magic and does not automatically absolve you of wrongdoing! Keep in mind that you CAN do racist things EVEN if you don't think you are.). So, how you would take it upon yourself to learn is look up "racism 101" on the internet. That way, you can study common mistakes people make and make note not to do those things yourself.

This is just one example. It's the same with "sexism 101", "ableism 101," "classism 101," "homophobia 101," "and transphobia 101," etc. These are good places to start learning. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, you are much less likely to say or do something offensive. You will also be able to recognize these things elsewhere in society and be able to point them out, "Hey, that's kind of rude. You shouldn't do/say that."

Just keep in mind that these are JUST THE BASICS and always be open and listen when someone tries to tell you that you have done something rude. There IS also more information out there, if you investigate a little bit online.

Hope this helps!



hey_there
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31 Aug 2014, 3:25 am

Sodalite wrote:
hey_there wrote:
Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?


There is also self-directed learning you can do. For example: one of the ways people can be rude is by saying something racist (EVEN if they didn't know it was racist-- intent is not magic and does not automatically absolve you of wrongdoing! Keep in mind that you CAN do racist things EVEN if you don't think you are.). So, how you would take it upon yourself to learn is look up "racism 101" on the internet. That way, you can study common mistakes people make and make note not to do those things yourself.

This is just one example. It's the same with "sexism 101", "ableism 101," "classism 101," "homophobia 101," "and transphobia 101," etc. These are good places to start learning. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, you are much less likely to say or do something offensive. You will also be able to recognize these things elsewhere in society and be able to point them out, "Hey, that's kind of rude. You shouldn't do/say that."

Just keep in mind that these are JUST THE BASICS and always be open and listen when someone tries to tell you that you have done something rude. There IS also more information out there, if you investigate a little bit online.

Hope this helps!


Yes, I am fully aware that just because I'm not aware that something may be offensive it doesn't mean it isn't. I always make sure to listen when someone tells me I've been rude/inappropriate (as this feedback is essential to avoid repeating the same mistake). And yes, I agree that the internet can be a helpful place to go to to find info on things you shouldn't say and do.



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02 Sep 2014, 2:17 am

League_Girl wrote:
Permanence wrote:
For me, a lot of it is trial and error. But at work I do ask my colleagues before sending a potentially risque email if what I have typed is appropriate. Also if we're going to a meeting or something, I will often tell them what I'm planning to say beforehand and they will give me some tips or tell me if I'm just being ridiculously inappropriate. Sometimes it also works the other way, in that, if something slips out during a meeting - I can ask them afterwards, was that appropriate? And if it was I can go apologise to whomever I said it to.

For example, before one of our meetings started, one of the head honchos was in the room and we got to chatting about how she was engaged but her engagement ring was too big. She said she was going to get her ring resized and I replied "or you could just get fatter", in jest. She was kind of like :O and laughed, then everyone else laughed, but then after the meeting I asked if it was appropriate because I wasn't expecting her to gasp and my colleagues said that by telling her to get fatter, I implied she is already fat - and trust me, she's not, she's got the body of a supermodel. I meant that she should just put on weight and grow into the ring. So I apologised to her afterward and she was all good with it.

Most people that I have a close working relationship with understand that sometimes I just say/do weird stuff, haha. I have them to thank for allowing me to remain employed lol.


What if you had said "or you can just get fat" or "Or you can just put on some weight" would they still have laughed?
Yeah...... good question. I'm wondering too. If I had a supermodel body, I would laugh at that.



886
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02 Sep 2014, 2:40 am

It usually doesn't work that way because no one is that direct.. trial and error is truly the best way. It's a painful process, but worth it in the long run, even if you have to embarrass yourself a few times or make a few enemies.


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02 Sep 2014, 3:04 am

skibum wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
hey_there wrote:
skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.
At first when I read that I thought it was funny, but then when it said that she had a (thin) supermodel body I understood that it implied that.


Weight/size is one of those topics I learned long ago not to joke about or mention regarding women. It can be a very touchy subject and very easy to cause offence. One of the classics is asking a woman with an extended abdomen when she is expecting her baby only to be told "I'm not pregnant! :x " Oops. :oops:
That has actually happened to me. Someone asked me when I was expecting and turned bright red when I said, "I'm not, I'm just fat."



My brother's girlfriend also got that question at work while she was expecting and she would say she isn't pregnant just to mess with them and they always got embarrassed.


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hey_there
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02 Sep 2014, 3:05 am

886 wrote:
It usually doesn't work that way because no one is that direct.. trial and error is truly the best way. It's a painful process, but worth it in the long run, even if you have to embarrass yourself a few times or make a few enemies.
When you say it doesn't work that way, do you mean others letting you know if you've done or said something wrong? What makes you say that? While perhaps there may not always be a 100% guarantee that all three (friends/family/coworkers) will always assist you with this, these are the people one would think you should be able to turn to for help with this sort of thing. (sorry if thats not what you meant)

Also, yes, you may make yourself a few enemies through trial and error, but chances are that these enemies will be people who you may never see again (like if you're talking to and accidentally offend the guy ahead of you in line at the store checkout, a guy on the street etc.) so, whatever.

While a guy on the street becoming your enemy because of something you may have accidentally said is a little unfortunate, I say that's way not as bad as if it were a coworker, or someone else who you see a lot though.



Last edited by hey_there on 02 Sep 2014, 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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02 Sep 2014, 3:10 am

hey_there wrote:
Sodalite wrote:
hey_there wrote:
Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?


There is also self-directed learning you can do. For example: one of the ways people can be rude is by saying something racist (EVEN if they didn't know it was racist-- intent is not magic and does not automatically absolve you of wrongdoing! Keep in mind that you CAN do racist things EVEN if you don't think you are.). So, how you would take it upon yourself to learn is look up "racism 101" on the internet. That way, you can study common mistakes people make and make note not to do those things yourself.

This is just one example. It's the same with "sexism 101", "ableism 101," "classism 101," "homophobia 101," "and transphobia 101," etc. These are good places to start learning. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, you are much less likely to say or do something offensive. You will also be able to recognize these things elsewhere in society and be able to point them out, "Hey, that's kind of rude. You shouldn't do/say that."

Just keep in mind that these are JUST THE BASICS and always be open and listen when someone tries to tell you that you have done something rude. There IS also more information out there, if you investigate a little bit online.

Hope this helps!


Yes, I am fully aware that just because I'm not aware that something may be offensive it doesn't mean it isn't. I always make sure to listen when someone tells me I've been rude/inappropriate (as this feedback is essential to avoid repeating the same mistake). And yes, I agree that the internet can be a helpful place to go to to find info on things you shouldn't say and do.




Reading all that stresses me out because it just makes me more afraid to talk to people because it's too much for me to remember and if all that is offensive, what else is offensive? I used to think I was the crazy one and it was my AS but I was relieved to see NTs struggle with this too so they call it political correctness and they also think people just get offended too easily. Now I wonder just when does something become ASD when it comes to offending people unintentionally and not understanding?


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02 Sep 2014, 4:00 am

League_Girl wrote:
hey_there wrote:
Sodalite wrote:
hey_there wrote:
Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?


There is also self-directed learning you can do. For example: one of the ways people can be rude is by saying something racist (EVEN if they didn't know it was racist-- intent is not magic and does not automatically absolve you of wrongdoing! Keep in mind that you CAN do racist things EVEN if you don't think you are.). So, how you would take it upon yourself to learn is look up "racism 101" on the internet. That way, you can study common mistakes people make and make note not to do those things yourself.

This is just one example. It's the same with "sexism 101", "ableism 101," "classism 101," "homophobia 101," "and transphobia 101," etc. These are good places to start learning. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, you are much less likely to say or do something offensive. You will also be able to recognize these things elsewhere in society and be able to point them out, "Hey, that's kind of rude. You shouldn't do/say that."

Just keep in mind that these are JUST THE BASICS and always be open and listen when someone tries to tell you that you have done something rude. There IS also more information out there, if you investigate a little bit online.

Hope this helps!


Yes, I am fully aware that just because I'm not aware that something may be offensive it doesn't mean it isn't. I always make sure to listen when someone tells me I've been rude/inappropriate (as this feedback is essential to avoid repeating the same mistake). And yes, I agree that the internet can be a helpful place to go to to find info on things you shouldn't say and do.




Reading all that stresses me out because it just makes me more afraid to talk to people because it's too much for me to remember and if all that is offensive, what else is offensive? I used to think I was the crazy one and it was my AS but I was relieved to see NTs struggle with this too so they call it political correctness and they also think people just get offended too easily. Now I wonder just when does something become ASD when it comes to offending people unintentionally and not understanding?
I agree, that's a lot of stuff! I myself am frequently like, what if this is offensive?..... what if that's offensive?.... Would xxx be offensive? :huh: :?

Also, IMO any inappropriate thing that an ASDer may say that offends someone that they aren't aware is inappropriate is ASD, as there is no fixed list of things that ASDers know/don't know is inappropriate.



Last edited by hey_there on 02 Sep 2014, 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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02 Sep 2014, 4:10 am

Trial and error, yes.

I've been beat up so many times for saying the wrong thing. These days I just get told off.

But as I get older the less I seem to give a s**t.

I don't say that much anyway.


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02 Sep 2014, 5:13 am

For major things, it's easy to know if something will LIKELY be taken as rude.

It's the finer points of social interaction that gets me. You see it all the time. The CHARISMATIC people can do something but if you did the same, the reaction would be completely different.



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02 Sep 2014, 5:25 am

zer0netgain wrote:
For major things, it's easy to know if something will LIKELY be taken as rude.

It's the finer points of social interaction that gets me. You see it all the time. The CHARISMATIC people can do something but if you did the same, the reaction would be completely different.
Sorry if I sound stupid, but what do you mean by major things?



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02 Sep 2014, 7:00 am

It has been trial and error for me. Even that doesn't help though. I'm kind of stubborn so if it doesn't make sense to me, I just ignore it and think "well that shouldn't be rude, they just need to understand me more and they'd know I'm not being rude" my friends get it now, sometimes I say things that sound very rude, and rarely I can catch it and I reply "well i didn't mean to sound rude" but they're understanding about me and know I didn't.



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02 Sep 2014, 10:13 pm

Scanner wrote:
It has been trial and error for me. Even that doesn't help though. I'm kind of stubborn so if it doesn't make sense to me, I just ignore it and think "well that shouldn't be rude, they just need to understand me more and they'd know I'm not being rude" my friends get it now, sometimes I say things that sound very rude, and rarely I can catch it and I reply "well i didn't mean to sound rude" but they're understanding about me and know I didn't.
Haha yeah, I too sometimes don't understand how something is rude, even if its explained to me. But I know that the people who tell me it is (I'm not very social and barely talk to anyone, so by "people" I pretty much mean my parents) know much better than me what's rude and what's not so of course I'm going to accept what they say.