Shocked By The "Aspartners" site

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androbot01
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27 Nov 2014, 6:49 pm

League_Girl wrote:

I assumed she worked two jobs to support him. She never mentioned if he worked too or if he is in school. I also assumed she has tried asking him and talking to him because that is what she wrote and then she wrote he gets mad at her about it when she asks him to do something. It always bothers me when people say an aspie will never change or they can't expect them to change. I take offense to that because it is implying it will never get better and that they are unable to do it.

But maybe he doesn't want to "get better." And also, I can't believe someone would work to support someone else. Not for very long anyway. Unless they're a masochist. They're not suited - a neat person can't live with a slob. My bf and I can't live together, we've tried several times and a big issue we have is his neatness.

dianthus
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27 Nov 2014, 7:49 pm

If she was working two jobs to support him, I think she would have mentioned that in her post, with some real indignation.

Jono
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27 Nov 2014, 9:43 pm

elkclan wrote:

Quote:

Besides, what could really be the problem there is the OP's unsuccessful attempts to communicate what she needs to her partner, rather than his unwillingness. Like when she says that he becomes upset when she says anything negative about him. I would actually advise her to simply ask him to help her out when she needs it rather than going up to him and saying "you don't do this or that" because to an aspie, that sounds accusatory and comes across as criticism.

She also says that he appears to obsessed with a computer game or something to be the main. That could be his escape route when stressed, so I would recommend a compromise on that, like asking him to help her with chores before going to the game.

Communication actually isn't the solution to every problem. In fact the guy from the LoveLabs says that communication is rarely the issue in relationships in the relationships he analyses. And I think this woman makes a lot of sense: http://www.yourtango.com/experts/ph-d-s ... HeKKFesWyc

Maybe this woman is a shockingly bad communicator, but I'd make a guess that she's probably tried to ask him for more time and for more help without going to the nag first.

My husband gets upset if I say anything about anything that he does. I mean even the most neutral comment he can react with defensiveness. So I say nothing. And my soul dies a little more each day. He says plenty. He's happy to criticise me endlessly. And believe me I've tried talking to my husband about moderating D&D - focusing on family stuff first, then doing D&D. I've got no issues with hobbies, I have my own and I have always let him prioritise his face-to-face meetups unless I had a major work thing. But I can ask, I can state my needs and expectations, I can try cajoling, I've even tried screaming and threatening but NOTHING. I mean NOTHING has changed his behaviour. I recently asked him to move a D&D meetup from our house (which by the way he didn't ask me if he could do first) because I was too sick to have people over - people who can be quite loud. This lead to a 30 minute rantdown on how awful I am (I mean vile, vicious nasty stuff adult stuff) with our son in the next room.

So if her partner is anything like mine, then no I don't think communication is the issue - or at least I don't think communication is the solution that you think it might be.

By the way Elkclan. The OP's latest post confirms exactly what I speculated about in your quote above:

Sorry it has taken me so long to get these responses to everyone, I have been reading them, I just haven't been able to get back to the site until today to be able to post.

yyy wrote:

I has made me a bit sad to see so many saying to pretty much leave or run because I'm trying to avoid running from the problem, I've tried talking to him again about maybe him picking up a little bit more of the responsibilities and it comes back with just more excuses of why he doesn't, a good amount of the blame put on me because he says I ask at the wrong times, or don't ask quietly enough, or I use the incorrect words...stuff like that.

I'm not looking for him to pick up even half of the in home responsibilities, even if he would throw his own trash away, vacuum, or something, just so that I can have one thing in my mind that I know I don't have to worry about. Or if one day when he is off work and I've just gotten off that he makes dinner for me so that I can relax. I wake up at 4 am whether I work or not so that I make him breakfast, and pack his lunch for work, I just want a little bit in return.

Bold emphasis mine. That bolded part sounds a lot like the typical communication issues between NT and AS individuals to me.

dianthus
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27 Nov 2014, 9:58 pm

Jono wrote:

yyy wrote:

Bold emphasis mine. That bolded part sounds a lot like the typical communication issues between NT and AS individuals to me.

Yep. Those were exactly the things I had in mind when I first read her post.

Good grief, it's not a matter of "blame." It's a preference and/or request for a different approach.

yyy wrote:

I'm not looking for him to pick up even half of the in home responsibilities, even if he would throw his own trash away, vacuum, or something, just so that I can have one thing in my mind that I know I don't have to worry about. Or if one day when he is off work and I've just gotten off that he makes dinner for me so that I can relax. I wake up at 4 am whether I work or not so that I make him breakfast, and pack his lunch for work, I just want a little bit in return.

Like I said in the other thread, a lot of this stuff just sounds like commonplace relationship issues, and typical complaints that women have about men. This is not an AS thing. An autistic person who likes to be neat might just as well say the same things about an NT partner or roommate.

elkclan
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28 Nov 2014, 12:41 am

Of course it makes her sad when everyone tells her to leave him.

It makes me sad that my marriage hasn't worked out. Intensely sad.

When people told me how bad my relationship was, I didn't want to see it either. When you love someone you don't want them to tell you that this person isn't good for you. Even if you suspect it's true. What people often want in these situations is some magic bit of advice on how to fix the relationship.

Jono, maybe NTs are bad communicating with Aspies. But maybe Aspies, in general, are not very good at being romantic partners. The statistics seem to suggest this. Every relationship site seems to suggest this. I think Aspies could be better partners than they are, but it takes conscious effort to do that. And it certainly isn't about responding to a legimitate concern with "You just need to communicate with me better." If NT partners have to practice conscious communication, AS partners need to practice conscious empathy. I've seen some AS partners on this site talk about their relationships that seem to work and this is what they seem to be doing. I've seen my own husband practice conscious empathy on a few occasions and he was able to provide emotional support to me (when my grandfather died for example, his behaviour was on balance really good).

I see just as much US v THEMISM here as I do on the AS Partners site. I see just as much wild generalisation about NT behaviour.

I would ask you though how many NTs you've been in romantic relationships with or how you know this? Even if it's true communication is a two-way street. And when you've asked again and again and again for basic compromises - you don't communicate as well you might otherwise. Yet still people, including people in abusive relationships will twist everything back on themselves - if only I was a little more this or a little more that then maybe he wouldn't do this... Yes, we should always look to see what our parts are in situations, but we (and mean we as in we humans) shouldn't take all of the blame in relationships.

And the problem with this 'communication' theory is that sometimes it just isn't possible to communicate as the websites advise all the time. I recently got taken to A&E with chest pains. I texted my husband this and that they were running tests. His response: "OK good luck." If I didn't communicate my needs:

1. Please express sympathy
2. Please sort out childcare for your child
3. Please ask what hospital I'm in and if you should come
4. Please find out if I need help or who is with me
5. Please find out if I need help getting home

It was because I couldn't breathe and was having chest pains. Fortunately, I have friends who did anticipate needs and took care of all of this for me. I would not have been able to get home on my own.

My experience isn't unique. Lots of NT partners in NT/AS relationships have similar stories around health crises.

dianthus
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28 Nov 2014, 1:02 am

elkclan wrote:

Yet still people, including people in abusive relationships will twist everything back on themselves - if only I was a little more this or a little more that then maybe he wouldn't do this... Yes, we should always look to see what our parts are in situations, but we (and mean we as in we humans) shouldn't take all of the blame in relationships.

You really need to learn to differentiate, "people in abusive relationships" from "people in a relationship with someone who has a disability."

Until you can do that, you are just going to keep confusing yourself.

League_Girl
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28 Nov 2014, 1:11 am

androbot01 wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

Neither can I but I have heard about people working more than one job to support their partner who won't work. Then I always think "I can't believe someone would want to live that way." I do have an aspie friend online whose sister works more than one job to support her husband who doesn't want to work. Unless the partner lost their job and can't find work due to no jobs being available, then that is different.

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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

League_Girl
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28 Nov 2014, 1:12 am

dianthus wrote:

elkclan wrote:

You do realize anyone can be abusive, mental illness, disability, or not.

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dianthus
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28 Nov 2014, 1:17 am

League_Girl wrote:

dianthus wrote:

elkclan wrote:

You do realize anyone can be abusive, mental illness, disability, or not.

I do realize that, are you seriously asking me this like you think I don't know that? What kind of fool do you take me for?

Nevertheless they are separate issues and need to be understood as such.

A person who is living in an abusive relationship should not be confusing this with accommodating, understanding, or making allowances for a disability.

League_Girl
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28 Nov 2014, 1:20 am

dianthus wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

dianthus wrote:

elkclan wrote:

You do realize anyone can be abusive, mental illness, disability, or not.

But elkclan really is in one. She has posted about it so many times here already about what her husband does. Then you tell her she needs to know the difference between abusive relationships and relationships with someone with a disability. She can be in both.

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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

dianthus
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28 Nov 2014, 1:34 am

League_Girl wrote:

I didn't say she couldn't be in both situations at the same time.

StarTrekker
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28 Nov 2014, 2:00 am

Quote:

Consider their life for a moment. Everyone who has a baby hopes and prays for "normal". But sometimes what they get is "Autistic". And then, although they still love their child, they have to put aside the expectation of normal and learn to live with the child they actually have.

Jesus. Way to make us sound like a freaking tragedy. Everyone wants a normal kid, but sadly, sometimes they get stuck with a reject. This infuriates me.

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League_Girl
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28 Nov 2014, 2:16 am

My husband also wanted a normal child despite having disabilities himself. so far both our kids seem normal but our oldest is having problems but after removing Spiderman TV shows from him, he has done better. No more being rough with other kids and some aggression. My mom figured out that was the problem so we tried it and he has settled down.

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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

Jono
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28 Nov 2014, 2:16 am

elkclan wrote:

Jono, maybe NTs are bad communicating with Aspies. But maybe Aspies, in general, are not very good at being romantic partners. The statistics seem to suggest this. Every relationship site seems to suggest this. I think Aspies could be better partners than they are, but it takes conscious effort to do that. And it certainly isn't about responding to a legimitate concern with "You just need to communicate with me better." If NT partners have to practice conscious communication, AS partners need to practice conscious empathy. I've seen some AS partners on this site talk about their relationships that seem to work and this is what they seem to be doing. I've seen my own husband practice conscious empathy on a few occasions and he was able to provide emotional support to me (when my grandfather died for example, his behaviour was on balance really good).

That's the thing, the conscious empathy thing that the AS partner must practice is itself also about communication. NT's have a built-in ability to know what another person is feeling and also know how to respond to it. An aspies so-called lack of empathy is mainly due to not knowing, not because they don't care (the kind of empathy we supposedly lack or have difficulty with is called "cognitive empathy", the kind of empathy that has to do with caring, which we do have, is called "affective empathy" or "emotional empathy"). So, because we often don't intuit the feelings of others, sometimes other people have to communicate this with us. You'll notice that in those relationships here on WP where they work, often the NT partner has to tell the AS partner what they're feeling, in way in which normally they don't have to do when in a relationship with other NT's and that's when the AS partner can empathise or appropriately respond empathically to them. Though it's also the case that often the AS partner also learns how to tell when the NT partner needs support, usually through self-awareness and getting to know them.

League_Girl
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28 Nov 2014, 2:21 am

I don't know how often my husband always has to be clear with me and often rephrase thing he says to me. I am not aware of it because I live it. He will say something and then say the next thing later and I don't even notice if you know what I mean. He's told me he finds it frustrating sometimes but he deals with it because he loves me. He doesn't pay any attention to how often he has to do it. I do know he has to tell me everything he wants me to do because it never occurs for me to do it on my own. This can be frustrating for an NT because they want their partner to automatically know.

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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

Jono
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28 Nov 2014, 3:07 am

elkclan wrote:

And the problem with this 'communication' theory is that sometimes it just isn't possible to communicate as the websites advise all the time. I recently got taken to A&E with chest pains. I texted my husband this and that they were running tests. His response: "OK good luck." If I didn't communicate my needs:

1. Please express sympathy
2. Please sort out childcare for your child
3. Please ask what hospital I'm in and if you should come
4. Please find out if I need help or who is with me
5. Please find out if I need help getting home

It was because I couldn't breathe and was having chest pains. Fortunately, I have friends who did anticipate needs and took care of all of this for me. I would not have been able to get home on my own.

My experience isn't unique. Lots of NT partners in NT/AS relationships have similar stories around health crises.

Most of those 5 points are, to me, common sense anyway but maybe that's because I already know that that's how you're supposed to react when any loved one is hospital. If I was your husband, rest assured that I would of done all 5 of those things. From everything that you've written here on WP, your marriage has already failed a long time ago and you've stopped relying on him for support. So his response doesn't surprise me.

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