Difference between normal people and us

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I'm not sure our differences will ever disappear, what I was maybe trying to say is that our differences are a gift that goes beyond mankind, in a way when you look at history most inventors (like Tesla) or artists (like Da Vinci) where all Aspies and minds ahead of their time, and without them the world would be different today.
I'm kind of from France, I was born and raised here but my mom is from California and my dad from a little country in the Mediterranean, so I'm not really French and I am French at the same time, but I don't feel like.

I sense that the OP's post is brilliant as well. But I admit, I don't fully understand it. I wish I did. But I don’t.

It reminds me of when I was younger, reading fine literature. I was totally lost, without the translation of Cliff's Notes.

As a note, the reason I read this thread, is that I do really want to understand the differences between normal people and us.

Beyond Normal topic
Mathim, I took a look at the link you provided. In a Zen-like way you are analyzing outside conventional borders.THAT is normal for me, though neurotypicals (non-AS) have spoken of this trait as "over-thinking", a way of conceptualizing as negative, tedious. I find some of your ideas intriguing, interesting, and hope to see more here on WP. Thanks for writing.

What the heck are you on about?

I realize OP is trying to explain a difficult concept and English not being his first language makes it doubly difficult.

I totally sympathize with that difficulty. What would be the point of peppering him with short questions when one doesn't understand his post in it's entirety? If I was in OP's shoes, I would find that irritating.

So knock off the condescending attitude and back up your repeated claims of understanding his posts perfectly by posting a summary. At least that would be worthwhile than this gratuitous rant.

My understanding (which may be wrong) is that normally the subconscious should mesh or integrate relatively seamlessly with the conscious thought process. And that the subconscious is supposed to handle most of the thought process and provide useful input for our conscious thought.

It seems clear to me that how these two parts of the mind work together is significantly different in non-neurotypical individuals. I try to collect key observations and then reverse engineer the process in order to find out the origins of these observed differences, in both myself and others. What I think is that the origins are within the subconscious, and how it communicates with the conscious mind.

It also seems that in myself and many others there is so much uncomfortable conflict between the two parts of the mind that we construct "abnormal" defensive barriers between the two in an attempt to preserve some conscious control over what is happening.

What I describe here may be very related to what you describe as "shadow". I refer to the constructs (consciously constructed) or mental structures as "simulations".
Since we may be consciously missing a great amount of information (intuition) coming from our subconscious due to these defensive barriers, some of us construct simulations of what we observe neurotypicals (NTs) doing.
This simulation is originally constructed within and run within conscious thought, until some point that conditioning may allow it to be at least partially stored and run subconsciously.

If this is true, then we may be suggesting opposite representations of what is going on within our minds.
I'm saying that my thinking is very much contained within the conscious part of the mind, while I filter and block out most of the input from the subconscious.
To me it sounds like you were saying the opposite, - that your thinking is very much contained within your subconscious. Is this correct?
Are we supposing opposite situations or just using the words "conscious" and "subconscious" in opposite ways?

It also sounds like you're saying that you, or "we", maybe as autistic, have more awareness than neurotypical people have. Do you mean this in terms of metacognition? or in other specific ways?

Are you saying that the thinking being contained more within the subconscious is the more exact or true awareness?
- maybe as it is more direct to sensory perception, and more removed from conscious (conceptual) thought?

You say normal people can cut off more of their inputs, or emotions coming from their subconscious - correct?
I describe this in terms of "psychopathy", in that they often idolize and try to emulate psychopaths, and thus engage in a great amount of psychopathic behaviors.

This is what I see. I describe effects like this in terms of what I call "the hive mind", where algorithms are passed between normal people and reside in their subconscious minds where they exert control over behaviors by way of manipulating chemical reward pathways in the brain. These algorithms are highly evolved (memetics) that contain the logical codes needed for their own survival, reproduction, and ability to exert control over the host body.
As a simple example, a particular meme can use the chemical reward pathway to pressure an individual to perform some psychopathic type of behavior, and then use the brain's chemicals to reward the individual for the behavior.

The hive mind being a collective group of self-supporting algorithms distributed among a great many people in a society. Technically there are multiple hives that compete with each other in a memetic environment.

Here are some links to information I think is relevant and that you might find interesting.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

I don't understand what the op is saying, not even enough to ask a question, so it would be helpful if someone who understands posts a summary in more concrete language, otherwise all I see is verbal labels with no concrete meaning.

That might be overly optimistic

Mathlm I believe has said what so many of us see - I thank you!

I'm afraid your attitude and the OPs are entirely different on this matter. Please read the OP's responses, the OP is clearly eager to respond in detail to "everybody". Why? I suspect the OP wants to learn our perspectives as much as we are interested to learn from the OP.



Was not my intention to be condescending, apologies if I came across that way

I do take lyrics literally, and for that reason - I haven't been listening to a lot of music because it's too draining to be emphatic towards what people could look at as empty pop songs. I also don't listen to some music can it be triggering, in example: it will make my brain/subconciousness come up with things when I myself don't want to be. I have fragmented perception, so it takes a really long time for me to process info - it's all in pieces....my subconciousness does everything, my book wrote itself. I have no f*****g idea how PPL can sit down and write a novel

I don't watch fictional movies or TV because it's too much information, hard for me to follow. One detail will stick out to me, like a gesture or a detail in the background and ill forget about the entire frame or concept. It can be really exhausting, it can also trigger too many ideas and I like my ideas to come purely from my reality+experience or of other real humans, not from fictional characters. I'm obsessed with realism. Thanks for making me feel less alone!

@cyberdad(page 2, 7th post)
I'm so pleased.
So pleased.
@rugulach(the post two times before the latest, page 2, 8th post)
I understood. And I have no means.
@Raven(page 2, 9th post)
Thank you for interpreting.
At first I couldn't discern XD, what does mean.
I'm sorry.
I'm not sure, I don't think I can interpret with myself.
I hope I can someday.
But I think yours are right enough.
@cyberdad(before the latest)
Thank you for understanding me.
Western arrogance, that is interesting.
I feel worse in japan. Japanese have more arrogance so often in different way. They over-generalize things and say "you feel nothing special" implicitly, even for people feel really sick. "Oh, your opinion is part of mine and nothing." THEY ARE NATURALLY ARROGANT, perhaps polite but because they are too arrogant and always satisfied much more from it.
So, maybe there's no difference, or maybe one is worse.
I like chinese, korean, malaysian etc, Asians, except for my own.
Possibly I'll feel better with chinese malaysian etc, asian, however I like honesty of westerner. At least, now and in close future.
And thank you so much you say, I mean you wrote, beautiful, about my written posts.
@insania2016
Normal is diverse but still normal.
They have less bitterness or pain in doing abnormal.
They play an abnormal person.
Playing and serious disability are different.
I'm sorry this may be offensive.
Yes, I am me. But I feel pressure not to be me. That is the problem.
They picking up and poking up trifles for them but not for me or us.
They force me or us to give up what we need eagerly as identity to be myself to be comfortable.
I don't know why but they do so on just the sensitive pinpoint. And I lost every place to be me in my house.
@SpirosD
Tesla, Da Vinci, fragrant names.
I know less about Da Vinci.
But I admire Tesla, if you don't mind I want to use Ms., so much.
Because I'm envy that theoretical ability of xx.Tesla comparing to xx.Edison.
From I read about xx.Tesla on Wikipedia
I'm sorry for this foolish sentences with double x.
I'm very sorry.
And your Mediterranean roots fascinate me much more.
I'm sorry this is just only in my point, not yours.
Straying around identity is so sad i suppose.
@sartresue
Thank you.
It is very much compliment.
If you mean the link is my google+ page,
I'm very very glad.
@Rocket123
I'm very sorry my incorrectness.
I recommend you to read olympiadis's ones.
They are very correct.
Though for a want to understand the differences between normal people and us, I have no idea.
But perhaps, it needs many times and long time reading and studying.
How about reading more various about autism, not specific reading but easy reading, maybe even only turning pages or pgdn scroll of it in front of your eye.
Even similar diseases to autism spectrum.
Or more general topics out of psychiatry.
It will complement our literacy about us from outside.
Maybe we should give up to suceed it in our conscious effort, specific reading and studying and various trying.
@rugulach
Thank you for reading my topic.
Thank you for considering me very much.
Honestly I feel happy quite a bit for the post cyberdad wrote.
But with no reason or a reason I needed your help as well, your posts.
I'm still not good at English.
Insight of each word.
As well about exact construction.
And Vocabulary I can't forget it, vocabulary.
@btbnnyr
I'm so glad you have tried and read.
I hope I can fix it by my own hand, but I can't now I suppose.
@mpe
Maybe, but I hope maybe not.
I'm sorry I was against, so bellow I try again.
That might be.
@zooguy
? Thank you too.
@cyberdad
Thank you.
Though honestly, learning the perspectives are a little painful for me.
But yes, exactly I want to learn it eagerly.
It's not condescending.
@campboy92
Not at all.
Thank you as well.
I wasn't, but I'm better now at music, so I hope you will be.
"one detail will stick out to me"
I experienced same kind perhaps.
In my case, particularly in reading a book.
And I haven't studied well everything.
Even a first page, I had usually gone mad at one detail idea, and had written about the idea too much even on that book, or notebooks.
Though I'm now sure, quite steady.
One year patience to learn english, foreign language, affected and affects me well.
I'm sorry but I'm different about real humans and fictional characters.
At least I felt better at, on, in, or with fictional characters.
Real human was so scary for me.
Even though now feel better except for a man.

@olympiadis
"To me it sounds like you were saying the opposite, - that your thinking is very much contained within your subconscious. Is this correct?
Are we supposing opposite situations or just using the words "conscious" and "subconscious" in opposite ways?"

Yes, correct.
Honestly I feel I'm contained very much within my subconscious.
But now I understand I'm not exactly autism.
(to the bellow question)I suppose we are opposite situations.
Not opposite usage of the two words.

"It also sounds like you're saying that you, or "we", maybe as autistic, have more awareness than neurotypical people have. Do you mean this in terms of metacognition? or in other specific ways?"

Sorry I had said in a specific way out of terms of metacognition.
But now I think I was wrong.
I should use terms of metacognition.
And perhaps, more awareness was wrong as well.

"Are you saying that the thinking being contained more within the subconscious is the more exact or true awareness?
- maybe as it is more direct to sensory perception, and more removed from conscious (conceptual) thought?"
I'm very sorry but honestly I suppose I had thought so but no intention to say so.
Now I don't think so.
I'm and was absolutely wrong, I mean I was wrong.
I have changed slightly and I must change more.
(to the bellow question)Perhaps, it is quite sensory, that is removed from consciousn exactly, but, I shouldn't think it is "more" than autistic.

"You say normal people can cut off more of their inputs, or emotions coming from their subconscious - correct?"

Yes, correct.
Absolutely correct.
I'm sorry for this aggressive agreeing.
I suppose they have merely a bad eyesight.
Only just dim about inputs and emotions.
Maybe I must correct my eyesight of mind and interest, enough dim, adequate dim.
Maybe medicine?

Ok, that's what I thought.
The neurological differences that make up autism can be outwardly expressed in different ways, as we see here on Wrong Planet daily.
Your conscious thought being contained very much within subconscious does not mean you're not autistic.

It may mean that your input from your subconscious is very much stronger than that of normal people.
It may be this same fact that you notice that causes many other autistics to develop defensive filters between their conscious and subconscious minds. I think this is what has caused my primary thinking mind to be contained within conscious thought, where it had retreated in order to try to get away from the powerful subconscious. A defensive position.




I'm not so sure that you are wrong.
Different doesn't mean wrong.
C. G. Jung says that it is normal to have some level of "split" between the conscious and subconscious brain, because we all have both parts. He says when things escape our conscious thought or perception, it is because they have "sunk" down into the subconscious. The conscious thought tries to search for information from the subconscious, like shining a spotlight around in the darkness until the conscious finds the information and brings it back up into consciousness.
Metacognition is being able to see yourself think, and observe the process as though you were outside of the process.
It seems to me that a person can have metacognition in regard to conscious thought, subconscious thought, or both.
I think that most of my metacognition is in regard to conscious thought, and it is extremely difficult for me to "see" what is happening in my subconscious. Perhaps this fact is why I developed the filters to try to block the subconscious, or maybe this fact is due to my having the filters in place. I'm not sure which.

I may be wrong on this. Here's why.
The ability to retrieve information of long passed and/or insignificant types from our memory seems to suggest an extra ability to access (shine the spotlight on) areas of the subconscious that normal people often can't access.
I have memory recall like this with exceptional detail about certain things and things normal people feel are insignificant or trivial. My conscious thought has the ability to access certain types of information that is generally thought to be buried deep within the subconscious.
Do you also have this characteristic? From what you've said so far, I would guess that you do.

In that case, we may be more alike than we think, though I may have developed some disorder that separates me from something you still have access to.

It seems, or sounds like maybe your metacognition is more in regard to your subconscious mind, which should mean you would have more access to, and ability to observe how your sensory input is being processed, as well as the nature of the formation of your emotions.
This sounds very fascinating to me and I would like to hear about all you can tell me about what you can see.




Some people seem to need medicine to help them "attenuate" the inputs from their subconscious.
I may need medicine as well, - not sure. So far I don't like what the medications have done to me, so I'm more afraid of them now. The alternative may be the brain's own defensive mechanisms, which may often result in several psychological disorders that are common among us here at Wrong Planet (WP). It's difficult to say which method is better for us in the long term, though there seems to be significant sacrifice (bad effects) from each choice.

As I said before, the "dim inputs" you describe sounds like "blunted affect" that is an overall attenuation of emotion, and can often be described as psychopathic behavior. Although most people are not true psychopaths, they can have many behaviors that show a significant lack of emotion or feeling. They can sometimes become a "protopsychopath" due to several factors such as contact with a true psychopath, brainwashing, drugs, psychological disorders, physical injury, and also due to what I describe as psychological pressure exerted on them by the hive mind.

From my own observation, I think the social pressure of the hive mind fits what you described in your previous post about the arrogance in both American and Japanese societies. Much, if not most of the time, I think that these social pressures push people into participating in more psychopathic type behaviors, and thus "normalizing" them within a society.

Also, from my own observation, I think several of the medications prescribed to "us" also have the effect of allowing us to more easily adopt more psychopathic type behaviors. I think this is directly due to the drug's ability to attenuate real emotional input from the subconscious. It lowers our inhibitions.
I think it is inhibitions that normally prevent us from engaging in psychopathic behaviors.

We also don't normally get a chemical reward for participating in psychopathic behaviors, but the medications may actually change this situation so that we then have some chemical incentive to succumb to social pressures.

I know a lot of people here don't agree with my opinions and speculations on this, but I wanted to run this by you to see what you may think.

This is just an example of flashbulb memories. This resonates with the OP's statement that what is trivial for NTs may still be salient for an autistic individual. Therefore, as long as the memory is salient it can be recalled in great detail from the subconscious. What would be perhaps more impressive is the ability to access "any" part of the subconscious at will! this includes visual or verbal information that was not paid attention OR only peripherally dealt with.



This is an interesting perspective. You need to also consider the role of drugs i.e. antidepressants or amphetamines in attenuating the emotional input from the frontal cortex as a result neural dysfunction interfering with executive function.

If I'm not careful, I'm going to be drawn into this thread, and never see daylight again. But, something that I said in linked in a day or so ago about the relationship between me and my missus could have a bearing on what is the difference between normal people and us. I had mentioned that one day when my pedantry was peeing her off she had said to me, "Why do you always have to have a reason for everything you think, say and do?" And I replied, "It is because I am reasonable." and she rebuked me, saying, "Are you saying I am an unreasonable?" I said, "Why do you ask that?" And she said, "There, you are doing it again." And threw my dinner in my lap! Hahahahahaha!

What's fascinating about the above dialog (and I have had many similar interactions in my past) is the fact that your wife's behavior is considered "normal" and our rational behavior is considered "abnormal". What's that saying? "In an insane society, the sane man must appear insane”.