Does Our Depression Come From Feeling Unloved / Shame ?

Page 3 of 9 [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9  Next

LupaLuna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,551
Location: tri-cities WA

12 Mar 2015, 8:39 am

I would have to say that depression does come from feeling(being) unloved and shame. but I also think that it come from knowing that your different and knowing that we constantly fail in social situation, which also adds to feeling depress. A lot of us blame asperger's for it, when it's more of the indirect effect of NT culture that causes the depression.



downbutnotout
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 656
Location: MN, US

12 Mar 2015, 8:53 am

Makes sense.

I like me, but others don't. Even if I normally have a playful outlook and find a lot of things fun, eventually I get dragged down by wondering what ugliness in me others can see that I can't again.



Sherry221B
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Age: 123
Gender: Female
Posts: 670
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

12 Mar 2015, 9:04 am

Quote:
I have found your advice to be good advice. Please don't be afraid to offer it.

Sometimes, people take things the wrong way. It doesn't mean YOU did anything wrong. It might be a problem with the other person.


Well, I have way too many bad experiences with people, more bad experiences just make me to want to stay away from anything related to people, or remind of it....I do not know how I do it, but almost (I do not want to generalise) everybody takes me the wrong way, for some reason. I am trying to learn some social things, to understand better how people work...So, I can handle these things better, but it is not easy....Anyway, from my experience I figured it out, that if there is no positive interaction, that it is better to stay away, or it can get even worse. It is the only thing I can think of, because I cannot predict the behaviors of others...If I knew better their patterns of reaction, how they are like, but I find this to be mainly an individual thing, because even if others can be similar are not the same....So, since I cannot predict it, if such situation arises, better to stay away...I still have to learn about these things.

Being always taken the wrong way, being misunderstood...It just makes me want to retreat and avoid anything people related. I know that what happened, was not that much, but it reminds me how bad is to be misunderstood....After all I cannot do anything about it. Well....I could just try to limit myself to giving advice if someone asks about it....But, even then, I think I would be taken the wrong way, even if I meant well....I have to think about this...

In other words, this little thing reminded me of how misunderstood I am...

Thank you again for writing.



Last edited by Sherry221B on 12 Mar 2015, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Mar 2015, 9:15 am

I wish I could say otherwise: but life is full of misunderstandings. And that includes everybody, even neurotypicals.

I wish I knew you in person, so I could offer better advice.

But I hope you don't give up on people because there are some "bad apples." There are "good apples" out there, too. I find that it is better to interact with others than it is to keep yourself isolated. You have ideas. Ideas get better, I believe, if you live in the world, rather than isolate yourself.

You have a philosophical mindset. People frequently feel their "philosophy" is the best philosophy--to the point where they can get quite stubborn. Sometimes, when people get "stubborn," they could also get mean. In these instances, the person is trying to gain the advantage on you.

What I would do in these instances is "stick to my guns." You know what you feel, and you know what's "right." Who is to say you're "wrong" (unless your philosophical outlook is wrong, in an objective sense, morally).

What I'm saying, basically, is that you are a viable human being, and you should never let anybody, or any thing, interfere with you enjoying your life.

I know it's "easier said than done"--but I believe "saying it" is better than "not saying it."



Sherry221B
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Age: 123
Gender: Female
Posts: 670
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

12 Mar 2015, 9:37 am

kraftiekortie:

Quote:
I wish I could say otherwise: but life is full of misunderstandings. And that includes everybody, even neurotypicals.

I wish I knew you in person, so I could offer better advice.

But I hope you don't give up on people because there are some "bad apples." There are "good apples" out there, too. I find that it is better to interact with others than it is to keep yourself isolated. You have ideas. Ideas get better, I believe, if you live in the world, rather than isolate yourself.

You have a philosophical mindset. People frequently feel their "philosophy" is the best philosophy--to the point where they can get quite stubborn. Sometimes, when people get "stubborn," they could also get mean. In these instances, the person is trying to gain the advantage on you.

What I would do in these instances is "stick to my guns." You know what you feel, and you know what's "right." Who is to say you're "wrong" (unless your philosophical outlook is wrong, in an objective sense, morally).

What I'm saying, basically, is that you are a viable human being, and you should never let anybody, or any thing, interfere with you enjoying your life.

I know it's "easier said than done"--but I believe "saying it" is better than "not saying it."



Yes, I have realised about the huge misunderstandings that can happen, that life is full of misunderstandings. My ideal interaction is like in the book of the Little Prince, when he is with the fox.

Quote:
"It is an act too often neglected," said the fox. It means to establish ties."

"'To establish ties'?"

"Just that," said the fox. "To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you, I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world . . ."

"I am beginning to understand," said the little prince. "There is a flower . . . I think that she has tamed me . . ."

"It is possible," said the fox. "On the Earth one sees all sorts of things." (....)

"One only understands the things that one tames," said the fox. "Men have no more time to understand anything. They buy things all ready made at the shops. But there is no shop anywhere where one can buy friendship, and so men have no friends any more. If you want a friend, tame me . . ." (...)

"You must be very patient," replied the fox. "First you will sit down at a little distance from me--like that--in the grass. I shall look at you out of the corner of my eye, and you will say nothing. Words are the source of misunderstandings. But you will sit a little closer to me, every day . . ."


No one thinks like them, though. I do not think that the philosphy someone has is necessarly the best; I think that finding the one that suits you better, and even adapting other philosophies to suit your own needs, that is better. That is the best philosophy.

I have gotten advatange of too many times as well....Well, at least I have remembered again about the fox from this book.

I got distracted by thinking about this part of the Little Prince, which made me think about many other things, that I forgot about the last part. Things are more complicated than that (for me), unfortunately, but that is not something interesting.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Mar 2015, 9:43 am

I get what you mean. Sometimes, one must acquire and convey wisdom in a patient manner, rather than be bombastic about it. One must remain in the background, and just listen.

We spoke, at length, at least once before. Have I mentioned Plato's "Allegory of a Cave?"



Sherry221B
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Age: 123
Gender: Female
Posts: 670
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

12 Mar 2015, 9:49 am

Quote:
I get what you mean. Sometimes, one must acquire and convey wisdom in a patient manner, rather than be bombastic about it. One must remain in the background, and just listen.

We spoke, at length, at least once before. Have I mentioned Plato's "Allegory of a Cave?"


The background- That part has reminded me of something else. No, you have not mentioned it to me before. Why? Do you like it?



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Mar 2015, 9:51 am

I enjoy it very much.

Basically, it acknowledges that people who have been "in the dark" for a long time have to be introduced to the "light" gradually, not suddenly.

I recommend you read it, if you feel like it.



Sherry221B
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Age: 123
Gender: Female
Posts: 670
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

12 Mar 2015, 10:04 am

Quote:
I enjoy it very much.

Basically, it acknowledges that people who have been "in the dark" for a long time have to be introduced to the "light" gradually, not suddenly.

I recommend you read it, if you feel like it.


Ok. I will re read Plato. Thank you for your recommendation. I actually like being recommended new or old readings.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Mar 2015, 10:18 am

I hope you have a lovely day today.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

12 Mar 2015, 10:52 am

B19 wrote:
Thank you very much for posting this link. I know people who have experienced exactly what this psychotherapist describes, and standard anti-depressants numb their lost/suppressed capacity to feel even more.


I agree about the meds.
I can see the meds being of value for short term treatment of very severe conditions, but it seems that in the long term they often make the problems worse and harder to overcome.
I really hope they come up with some new types of meds that work in different ways.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

12 Mar 2015, 12:04 pm

Perhaps shame and resulting depression are a natural way to cull those who are of no value to the group. Maybe suicide is right. Maybe it is best for the success of the group.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

12 Mar 2015, 12:18 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Perhaps shame and resulting depression are a natural way to cull those who are of no value to the group. Maybe suicide is right. Maybe it is best for the success of the group.



I have thought about this.
From a natural selection point of view, the rejection of those who are different, such as with "the uncanny valley" effect and social misfits, is to protect the group or system intelligence, - survival of the organized group.
If there are also effects that change the behaviors of the rejected individuals, then the efficiency of this rejection mechanism goes up.

For example, a rejected member that becomes depressed will have less contact with the group, be less likely to reproduce, will consume less resources, and may self-terminate.

It's awful to think about, but it seems efficient from the view of natural selection in environments favoring group behaviors.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

12 Mar 2015, 12:30 pm

it is increasingly odd to be me that suicide is frowned upon. The world rejects you, but for you to reject it - abhorrent. No, no, we're going to keep rejecting you, but we want you to keep playing the game. We will keep rejecting you and you will continue to try to win our love. Like a dog who wants to please by being liked. I'm smarter than I dog and I can figure out when it's time to leave.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

12 Mar 2015, 12:44 pm

androbot01 wrote:
it is increasingly odd to be me that suicide is frowned upon. The world rejects you, but for you to reject it - abhorrent. No, no, we're going to keep rejecting you, but we want you to keep playing the game. We will keep rejecting you and you will continue to try to win our love. Like a dog who wants to please by being liked. I'm smarter than I dog and I can figure out when it's time to leave.



You have a valid point, but it's also possible for people to work themselves out of their hole and find a happier place for existence in this life.
Obviously, getting yourself in the right environment, and/or around the right people is critical.

One of our problems that is a hinderance to us is that we don't like to change things like our environment because basically it's scary to do, = anxiety.
I admit that changing things scares me.



BuyerBeware
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,476
Location: PA, USA

12 Mar 2015, 12:52 pm

^^^^
This. There is better out there; I would hate for you to give up the hope of finding it.

On that note...

I have been saying, literally for YEARS (if not a couple of decades now), that I am sad and frightened because of all the energy I must expend simply to not be me if I wish to be accepted.

I can't seem to get anyone to listen.

In other words, YES. Yes, I do think that a lifetime of shame and rejection can cause a depression that medication cannot "fix." Yes, I do think that a lifetime of being told that your personality is broken will make you sad, scared, and angry-- and if medication takes it away, it is "flattening of affect," not a remission in the depression. Yes, I think that growing up with the understanding that your feelings, your interests, your personality, your very way of being in the world, is a "disease" that you must attend therapy for and work very hard to correct and compensate for will make you sad, and scared, and angry, and either self-hating or misanthropic.

And also very, very tired.

YES. I keep trying to explain that this is why I'm still sad and scared and always will be. Good luck getting anyone to listen.


_________________
"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"