CBT

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The goal seems to be lying to yourself. Or rather convincing oneself to believe the lie.
Wouldn't it be better to not feel that you suck at life in the first place? Rather than blaming the thought. So that not only is the situation crappy, but now it's my fault.

NICE (a regulatory body in the UK) recommended CBT as the preferred therapy for people with chronic fatigue syndrome. That speaks absolute volumes, doesn't it? When I first read that, I thought it was some kind of parody.

Nt's make as much maladaptive behaviours, so no good can come out of gathering these descriptions to neurodiverse.
And when something starts on false statements, there's a consequence of Fractal wrongness: 'You are not just wrong. You are wrong at every conceivable level of resolution'.


- Why attribute that to 'condition'? Children DO copy their parents.

My experience with CBT was something like this.

I read "Feeling Good" by Dr. Burns, CBT in book form. I learned a lot and it was definitely valuable, but while I was doing it a few Summers ago my depression scores were getting worse, not better. So, CBT didn't fix me.. but doing it did quantify my depression and made me realize I was getting worse vs. better and that something must be causing it. Then I discovered that, at the time, I was very sensitive to salicylate acids. Detoxed the acids from my body and within 5 days the worst depression of my life that had been getting worse for 5+ months was all but completely lifted and gone.

This essay raises some interesting issues about the politics of CBT:

https://melbournelacanian.wordpress.com ... gy-part-5/

No one claimed they have maladaptive behaviors and ideas. The thinking in Gaus's book is not "these are unique problems of people with AS" but "These are universal problems that people with AS also have. The defining characteristics of AS have an impact on this process and that's a place where people can help."


- Why attribute that to 'condition'? Children DO copy their parents.[/quote]
Just because I recognize the patterns of thought doesn't mean I behave that way. He doesn't have that to copy in me because I never say "I suck at life" or anything equivalent to that.

I don't attribute it to "condition," I attribute it to genetics. Twin studies--particularly studies of twins brought up separately--show clearly that such personality traits are heritable.

That is NOT the goal of the process described by Valeria Gaus.


If this is how CBT is being presented, it's something very different than the process described by Gaus. The goal is to identify those areas in which thinking is distorted so that you can more easily deal with the underlying problem.

Unless you believe that having trouble concentrating on something boring, or needing help scheduling and planning = sucking at life, then that IS distorted thinking.

I don't think it's controversial to recognize that depressed people have distortions in their outlook or that perceptions are different when you are depressed and when you are not depressed. if you recognize that the perceptions of a person who catastrophizes, or is depressed, or in the grip of anxiety are distorted, is there anything that can be done to help the person living inside those distorted perceptions?

This is one approach and the goal is not to brainwash or lie but to help people calm the extremes of distorted thinking that exacerbate their suffering.

Wow. That screed climbs a towering ladder of sophistry, goes out on a series of rhetorical ledges way, way over the top and drops into an abyss of nonsense!

" In Australia, there is sometimes populist outcry for sex offenders to be castrated, chemically or otherwise. Is not the practice of CBT performing exactly the same function, albeit, at the level of the psyche rather than the body? "

What kind of an argument is that?
Among other things, a fallacious one--and it's not a one off:

"Lobotomy was once commonplace as a treatment for various disorders.... CBT is the latest heir to this tradition, and whilst it is more subtle and refined again than the neuroleptics, we should not mistake its purported ‘effectiveness’ as anything other than a mutilation of subjectivity, a debilitation of the mind’s creativity."

So unless you are for castration of sex offenders and lobotomies for anyone you don't like, you must be against CBT! Case closed. What a steaming load.

"For political progressivism is incompatible with a doctrine that preaches to the abused and exploited of society that their dissatisfaction is borne merely of their own wrong thinking, which is something to therefore be dismissed or corrected"
Well, that would be a great critique, if CBT was a totalizing ideology that claimed all negtive perceptions and all dissatisfaction is pathological. But that isn't the claim made by Gaus or any other CBT practitioner that I have seen. And the idea that anxiety and depression come with distorted perceptions is hardly controversial. It's certainly borne out by my experience. To reject any attempt to heal or salve those psychic wounds on revolutionary and ideological grounds is really despicable, I think.

"Even if the epistemology and theory of CBT could be regarded as valid, it would nonetheless remain a doctrine that must be rejected on ethical and political grounds as a kind of casuistry (in the worst sense), and a manipulative attempt to induce submission and conformism (to norms) in those who fall prey to it."
Bull. This would only be true for practitioners who used the techniques of CBT to try to induce submission and conformism. As I lack universal knowledge, I can't say there aren't such people, but I can say that I know that there are people who use CBT who do not have such goals.

Hope the course helps you find employment Androbot01.

Interesting article B19, thank you. I shall read the whole piece later this evening when not in work. It makes some very good points.

I've always thought of CBT in quite pragmatic terms, it can be one useful tool in a whole tool chest of approaches that can be utilised to address or work with a person who seeks change in their life. I have used it quite successfully when trying to come out the other side of a major meltdown. It helped to change my thinking that had me taking full responsibility for not being able to work in an environment that my ex-employer refused to adjust to allow me to function. The CBT helped me look up and outwards and recognise that it had nothing to do with me and all to do with him. It didn't really help long term, but I viewed it rather like first aid helping me to cope until I got the intensive care/support I needed at that point.

As I said, I think any approach that fails to appreciate that we are a jumble of different influences, biological, genetic, cultural, societal or whatever, is flawed thinking. Our 'salvation' will not come from one particular approach; rather, as Kraftiekortie says, only an individual bespoke service will work as we are all so very delightfully different.

Now Object Relations Therapy is different, instead it being my fault, I could blame my Father!! !

^from the article^



But is it? Telling your son to stifle his expression of frustration at his challenges and that this expression is causing the problem, rather than admitting that, yeah, the feeling this is valid, is damaging psychologically. This is exactly what I mean by coercion to believe the lie that one's feeling is invalid, that one's thinking is powerful enough to bend reality.

Thanks


That works for me. Lol

CBT doesn't do a damn thing for me, turns out typically a clear thought does not precede every feeling I have...its more I feel like crap and then my brain tries to attribute reasons why, or there is no specific thought attached to it and thus thinking differently has no effect on it.

That's my experience too.

I've never had much luck with therapy. My shrink got me into a program like that too.

Did you end up getting a job out of it?

Not yet. I'm still on the waiting list.