Eye contact

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Good question not sure if the answer is yes , no or depends on the situation. I have no idea what the science is. I have memory at 16-17 of a teacher forcing me to make eye contact in the hall as I was being scolded for not working or sabotaging a scan-tron test.
I could not do it but a few seconds.


Sorry I did not read most people post beyond the first few words so this may have been
covered. I would like to see a systematic scientific valid way of training your child to reduce gaze avoidance. I have no idea what that science is. Can systematic desensitisation to eye contact avoidance work. Such as in the case of reducing fear from a
single phobia like fear of spiders? Likely not but it might help some. But whatever I would like to know what can be done not just tell you no.

I insist that he sounds like he needs to have more eye contact.

You can try for example, when in a situation like the one you mentioned where he is talking and no one was listening, to have a "secret signal", to help him realize that it's because he is not facing people, and that he needs to look at them to get listened.
And it'd also help to have a meeting later and analyze that moment when he was not listened to, and how it helped when he faced them.

In my personal experience, to have more contact (as in socialize) with people has made me less shy and more social

Holy s**t on a stick people, this is an honest question from a concerned mother, not a flame war.

FYI the Aspies I know IRL have managed to do it, or alternatively, fooled me into thinking they do it. And they manage to have fantastic conversations with large groups of people! It shows that a) some ARE capable of making eye contact, and b) faking it is very effective. My boyfriend and one of my best friends both lock eyes with me when they talk, but they have a very intense stare...often overpowers mine! I can't even lock eyes with my babe when we're...uh...you know...his stare is very intense. The guy at my office glances at other places on my face when he talks, rather than straight at my eyes (and I do the same for him because I notice he glances away if I lock eyes with him)...it's far more effective than him looking away whilst talking. The few others I've met are similar...feign eye contact.

Why is eye contact so important? WHY? It's really friggen simple actually. People look at the thing they're talking to.

If you're looking at a wall or the floor while you're talking to someone, they will ASSUME you are talking to either that object, or to yourself. My colleague has this habit as well as feigning eye contact...I often think he's talking to himself until he adds '...Amy?' on the end of it, wondering why I'm ignoring him. He DOES talk to himself (If I go 'wha?' after yet another mumbled statement, I sometimes get 'Oh, was talking to myself, helps me when I'm concentrating'), but half the time he was talking to me around the corner and not actually looking at me (we can see each other's reflections in the office window opposite us).

So why learn to at least fake eye contact?

Same reason a lot of Aspies complain about being ignored.

Want to talk to someone and get their attention? People find it VERY difficult to ignore you if you lock eyes with them. Stare at the bridge of their nose, that'll fool them. Concentrate on that, ignore their return stare. You'll have them, 100%.

Eromi...perhaps you need to talk to him about all of this. 'People ignore you becaaaause... eye contact issues. Does it freak you out, looking someone in the eyes? Well, eye contact is important becaaaause... and if it scares you, you can pretend for other people's sake [and ultimately your own] in this way... [nose, mouth, eyebrows, chin, face as a whole...] and it will help you in this way...'. As you know, he's probably incredibly intelligent and mature for his years, and will probably manage to grasp the logic behind this strange behaviour of society (or at least the method to work with it) even at his young age

I understand you think you are trying to make your son a more effective communicator, but you need to understand that you may be doing just the opposite.

I remember when my mother tried to teach me to keep eye contact when speaking with someone. (Previously, I kept my eyes on their shoes) I put so much energy into concentrating on keeping eye contact that I didn't even listen to what the person had to say. I was too busy watching them, doing what I thought appeared socially appropriate. and trying not to avert my gaze from their eyes...which caused me to attempt to read them, and what they were thinking from their expression.

I actually had to ask people to repeat what they said *several* times...I was completely unable to concentrate on listening and eye contact at the same time, as silly as that may sound to you. Making eye contact made me too nervous, and spawned to many other unrelated thoughts.

I wouldnt take it personally. Its a touchy subject. Alot of us have spent our entire lifetime with people in our lives who were always trying to mold us, make us be something we're not, do something we cant. Eye contact is one of the more common ones.

I came to the conclusion that whatever is comfortable is best because conversing in a linear social context where your supposed to follow ridiculous story lines that have nothing to do with how the speaker actually feels, is extremely difficult for me and the fear of having to converse creates anxiety. This then makes conversing harder and can be a downward spiral. And eye contact really accentuates this.

So I do meditative thought processes to calm down. And as I said, read lips.

people woah what happened?
She is not doing anything that parents to NTs don't do. she is asking if meking him make eye contact will be bad or good not asking if opening up his brain and rewiring it is good or bad. Its just something like "how do I teach my child this skill" or "can I teach my child this skill." bad wording doesn't make a bad person.. <_<

Like teaching someone to spelL and hold their pencel correctly eventhough it is uncomfortable... so they can write letters people will understand, teach a child to talk in ways people will take what your saying seriously.

Last edited by Raph522 on 22 Mar 2007, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OK....Here are my trigger words........."I am trying everything.....to force".....

If you were not raised in abusive family situation....those words would have no power over you.For me,being raised in a family with no knowledge of AS,the attempts to "normalize" me felt like abuse.I was given a daily message that I was defective.This isnt the same thing as a parent trying to guide and teach a child...that is their responsibility.What I experienced was a constant
bombardment of the following messages........"You do not feel or sense the things you are claiming,you are faking it,you would be able to do it if you tried harder,You are acting that way to annoy me,you are crying to get your way not because you hurt,the way you think and feel is wrong,the way you act is defective,I dont care what you feel or think you should do it because I told you to and not question why"


If the corrections had been balanced with some positive feedback,maybe it would have been different.I felt like a puppy in the corner wondering what it was going to be scolded for next.I had no idea what I was doing wrong half the time.I am really not trying to use my AS or my past history to be an excuse for being rude to you.I was reacting to a gut feeling of years of being "forced".If you had said the things you did in your last post,you would have gotten a much different response.I actually have some empathy for what my parents were going through...they had no more understanding of me then I did.They wanted the best for me and were just useing the same methods they had with my NT brothers(I am adopted).

The last thing I want to do is scare you away from this forum and into the arms of the ABA curbies.That is my worst nightmare for kids with AS.I am relived to hear that you love and value your son...he is going to need that more then all the therepy in the world.You might get more balanced response from the "parents forum"...they have been there from a perspective I dont have.
I dont recend my original advice that you nt force him to make eye contact.It can be painful for some of us,even if that makes no sense.If he needs to get someones attention,useing the name is often very effective,maybe he can practice that?What I found as a child was even that doesnt work for some adults as they view children as irrelevant(I grew up with"be seen and not heard").I wih you both luck.

"I am trying evrything I know to try to force him to make eye contact with others."

If you can not see the problem with this statment, and in later posts you defend it, then name names of those who strongly disagree with you, I cannot see the problem as other than you.

You asked for our opinion, which was freely given, the vote is 90% against your point of view.

Then you made personal attacks against three members by name. By the Terms Of Service, TOS, which you read and agreed to, that is forbidden. You are a rule breaker, a breaker of your own word.

You do not play well with others, you are a playground bully.

This thread should be locked, you should stay in the parents forum.

Krex is tough, you hurt Lab_Pet, and I am about to take you apart.

I'm on the mothers side in this debate (Eromi). I understand she has the best interest of
her child at heart and by the word "force" she does not mean in an abusive manor. She
asked a legit question if it was an effective way to treat gaze avoidance by intensively reminding the child to do so. We need expert advice on this matter.

I don't think anyone was trying to be mean. Krex, Lab_Pet, OR eromi. It just seems everyone is misunderstanding everyone elses posts.

thank you for those of you who replied with repsonses that I could use. I take this forum very seriously, as we live in an isolated part of the country where advice about aspergers is neatly packaged by individual, who basically have no idea. And regardless of the negative responses I will always question what I do and the way I raise my son. I can pretty much take it on the chin. My ONLY concern is "IS what I am doing right or not" I could easily sugar coat my question so it sounds like I am doing something which I wasn't, just to make myself look good at the expense of finding the truth. I believed it went without saying that I love my son it is something that he doesn't question and neither do I. To offer feedback I think that some people have been really damaged by the way in which thier parents forced them to do things. We are still persevering with it in a fashion. We had some fun thinking up a stock of generic answers and responses for when he looks and is disinterested, such as "wow that sounds really great" or "cool", and "I never thought of that" And looking at the bridge of the nose or checking out peoples lips as they move. Just to fake it, as i said in my last post I can fully understand him and in our lovely environment it works. knowing how to fake it outside our lovely environment at least is important for us. it breaks my heart when I see him actually manage to say something and I see how disappointed he is when he gets ignored, that look in his eye as he has been overlooked, as if what he has to say is not important. I don't want him to believe that about himself, as it is not true.