Disdain for alcohol and drugs = sign of Austism

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I have never taken any recreational drugs nor have I consumed any alcoholic beverages. I personally ABHOR the horrendous odour of alcohol - a mere whiff of that devilish beverage will leave me throwing up profusely and I will be left with a headache for hours. The same thing with the smell of marijuana, it makes me feel incredibly ill.. I personally don't see the appeal in taking drugs of any kind (excluding drugs for medicinal purposes), it just seems very silly and reckless.

I have heard self-medication statements from people who have smoked since they were fifteen, and I have wondered one thing. How on earth they knew that nicotine would be that one substance their body needs to cope, before they even tasted it? If I'd be looking for self-invented medication, I'd start from a bit healthier alternatives... So I'd say they probably started it to be cool, to be part of the gang and this self-medication story is a later by-product or as I assume, just a later narrative.

I also find it hilarious when for example some musicians state that they are not commercial and don't give a damn what others think while they then consciously pose in a picture with a cigarette to underline their rebellious and I don't give a f* -character - a cigarette they bought from a huge commercial machinery selling with the idea of gaining some immaterial dimensions by consuming a material thing. Just like cars are sold with sexy women - drive with this car and you are "driving" this lady!

We all buy into things, whether advertisements, social pressure or imagined expectations. I enjoy life with Coca-Cola, as long as I can enjoy life, for it is cutting both my teeth and telomeres... Self-medication...? Hell, no. Just purely buying into the commercial machinery and having a desire that has no real basis, at all. Or is it my throat that just graves another acid flushing as I speak...?

I can understand. When people are in overwhelming emotional pain/trauma/grief/catastrophe the stress hormones are relentless, it is hard to sleep/think/function and people want relief, to be able to turn the pain down or off.

Have talked to a lot of people, drug and alcohol free for years (like 25 years) and most of them say - "In a way I am grateful because if I hadn't used drugs then, I would have killed myself instead" - which I personally relate to very well also, especially people who come from the same age group as me, when acknowledging that you were hurting was considered a shameful weakness of character. I am glad that I found relief in substances when I most needed to. I am even more glad that that time in my life is long past.

Terrible things happen to some people and not everyone has loving friends and family, support or even anyone who cares. People do things for reasons; and the reasons aren't always apparent on the outside. Ultimately I don't actually see a lot of difference between people who get addicted to legal drugs vs illegal drugs - addiction is addiction, whether it is to caffeine or cocaine, though society tolerates some addictions (alcohol) and punishes others. Over time, the law is arbitrary - 'hard' drugs only became illegal as a moral offshoot of alcohol prohibition; they were used very commonly by the middle and upper classes of the Victorian and Edwardian eras, Queen Victoria setting the example of using opium, laudanum, marijuana and smoking the occasional cigar so these were considered very stylish and fashionable things to do. Suddenly that was deleted/ignored in the history books for political reasons and because hypocrisy is always rife in moral and political issues..

Maybe these musicians just happen to smoke and see no reason to leave that out when being photographed... and maybe some do think it looks 'cool' no matter to me really....though I hardly think puffing on a cigarette makes a musicians music commercial, by saying they aren't commercial I would imagine they are referring to the music, not trying to say they don't consume any consumer products that are potentially unhealthy.

I do not hear a lot of people claim their cigarette smoking to be self medication...and I certainly do not see it that way except they do seem to help get things flowing if I experience constipation which could be construed as self medication but usually that is not why I am smoking a cigarette.

Unfortunately, I drank like a fish for 35 years and used drugs for 22 years. In essence I was probably trying to kill myself. My periods of depression are many and, yes, drinking and drugging did bring me (temporary/fake) friends. Also, it helped me mask my aspergers symptoms most of the time. Now that I'm clean my childhood autistic symptoms have been coming back - more stimming, more awkwardness, etc. At least I feel a little smarter.

Sweetleaf, I believe that most people, me included, have a tendency to fade the choice out from our acts. Most of the things we do include a conscious choice. And for most conscious or semi-conscious choices there is a reason. But when it comes to choices viewed as "bad" or "shameful", we tend to fade that choice part out. Why do bullies in the work place feel threatened when you refuse to talk s**t of someone in their company? Because your choice makes also their choice visible. They made a choice and could as well have chosen the other way. Most who take part in the s**t throwing don't enjoy it, they just want to conform. Most nazi officials weren't deep rootedly evil, they just wanted to conform. When I tasted alcohol for the first time, I wasn't interested in the alcohol per se, I wanted to belong to the group, I wanted to conform.

Similarly the musician chose to take the cigarette into his photo shoot. In case he doesn't need to smoke every second, it is a choice and that choice has a reason - you want to tell something with it. Just like the co-bullies want to tell: Yo, main bully, like me, don't throw s**t at me.

I buy certain clothes that look good in my opinion. But when I think about it, the concept of looking good comes just from the commercials, media and social conformity. Smoking, although as a "meme" represents rebelliousness and boheme lifestyle, is still just another form of social conformity. And about the self-medicating statement you asked: the people who have said it to me, said they are either self-medicating their anxiety or ADHD with it. And like I stated, they well might be, but self-medicating isn't in my opinion the reason they started.

I get what you, B19, are saying about substance abuse working as an alternative to suicide, but there is also another side to it. In fact large number of the male suicides in Finland are committed while being seriously intoxicated. Similarly in most of the domestic violence and homicide cases the perpetrator was seriously drunk. All of the acts very probably would have been left undone in a sober state. My neighbor acted violently towards his wife and every time it happened, the man was drunk. The man might have thought that the alcohol helped him, released stress and so on, but I bet the family didn't think so. I can't name many people who committed suicide, but the one man I can name, shot himself with the hunting gun he owned while seriously drunk. Very Finnish suicide in that regard.

I don't judge people who drink or smoke. I drink at times too, though rarely. People are free to make a choice. I just wanted to bring out these views that are not considered cool, but preachy and judgemental.

The idea that medieval people had no access to clean water and therefore always drank alcohol is not true. In most places they had clean water, and I think it is more or less impossible to only drink alcoholic drinks (they will dehydrate you and you will need water after). They did drink a lot of beer, but that was deliberately made into low-alcohol beer by stopping fermentation so it would be around 1% alcohol, but still be safe because to brew beer you need to heat it close to boiling, killing most germs. Medieval people knew that if they drank alcohol all day they'd fall over before dinner. Besides, if they only had wine to drink everyone would have been born with fetal alcohol syndrome and be severely disabled (and we would have known this from contemporary accounts and finding deformed skeletons in the graves).

Just not sure how smoking a cigarette in a picture implies they are smoking every second...also its not like they are always planning for it when pictures are taken, they aren't going to tiptoe around never showing anything some people may not like just because due to their well known status they are likely to get their picture taken a lot. Sure its a conscious choice to smoke the cigarette, and/or not put it out for the picture, but it is 'their' choice not yours or anyone else's.

Just as someone who smokes I don't give all that much thought to it every time I light up...its not like I think it's going to make me a 'non-conformist' nor do I do it to actively conform to anything external...so I just don't imagine most musicians who smoke give it that much thought every time either. They don't have to have to feel bad or shameful about their choice to smoke, and perhaps they don't....if you would feel shameful being seen smoking that is up to you but not everyone else is going to see it that way.

Nicotine very well could be somewhat beneficial for ADHD...as a self medicating tactic because it is a stimulant, which most ADHD meds are as well, so it would make sense. Though in most cases that probably isn't the reason they started...but its not always 'to be cool' either, or to fit in. I remember being curious so eventually trying it...I really did not think it made me cool and in fact was very secretive about it around most people, then some people have sentimental reasons like maybe a dead relative or someone they where close to who isn't around smoked so the smell/experience reminds them of them...there are various reasons why people have their first puff on a cigarette.

As for alcohol I have had to learn to steer clear of it if i am in any sort of bad state, it certainly does not help. So anytime I feel like having a drink I think about why and if its anything to do with being angry, upset, really down ect. then I avoid it....if I just think a nice cold beer sounds nice, and I am not really stressed then I may have a couple, don't care for getting drunk really anymore either. But yeah part of it is I've gotten black out drunk more than once unfortunately and well it scares me that in that state what i could do and then 'not remember' like at worst thus far its just been more making a spectacle of myself which is embarrassing but not the end of the world...but what if I decided I was totally miserable and downed some of my medications and don't realize it till its too late? So yeah self medicating with alcohol is no good at least for me. I find cannabis to be a much, much safer alternative....kind of hard to get 'black out' stoned unless its in the sense of taking a nap afterwards and it more calms me/lifts my mood some and without all the frontal lobe impairment...in fact sometimes helps me think more clearly about certain things. But yeah I used to drink quite regularly, decreased my amount....though still had a few instances of getting too drunk in one sitting but it wasn't like 'every day' just about like before. But yeah I have never been addicted, it was what I used to self medicate before I switched over to cannabis, but due to self medicating and feeling like crap I have certainly had times of drinking way too much. I really do not think it is judgmental to point out the downsides of alcohol it is rather nasty stuff....I think in some cultures it is respected more than say in the U.S, but IDK. One reason I am pretty much in support of legalization/decriminalization of marijuana is because I think it could help with cutting down on drinking....as maybe a safer alternative at least some of the time. I know I'd rather get stoned than get 'drunk' and feel rather sickish in the morning when I just want to relax at the end of the day for instance.

I think it is the very low level alcohol, beer people are referring to when they say that...of course it wasn't as if they just got wasted all day on strong 9% alcohol ales, or drank nothing but won't and somehow where able to function somehow....but there where certainly areas of bad quality water where it needed to be made safe somehow...so making it into this beer with very low alcohol % helped with. I kind of also wonder though if the 1% alcohol served to kill off any remaining toxins or what not since it does kill germs and what not...perhaps not. Also though alcohol can be used as a basis for tinctures which can have many practical uses. Also not sure how climate change is going to totally prevent beer from ever being made again anyways....if climate change causes a lot of damage to the infastructure and lots of destruction sure it could destroy a lot of breweries, but people have been brewing beer or other alcoholic beverages since ancient times....people really don't think humans would find a way to continue this? Unless of course the climate change just kills everyone off, or somehow magically only kills people who know how to make beer/alcohol and somehow destroys any and all records of how to make it that probably won't happen.

Sounds like a good strategy.

Could it be that alcohol and drugs are considered as something fashionable/cool often associated with parties etc? And that not liking those things is rather uncool=autistic?

I drink wine every day but I'm thinking to quit it. Not that I'm addicted to it. I've never used any recreational drugs and never will. It just sounds silly to me.

Why does 'uncool' have to = autistic, its not like we have to conform to some code of anti-coolness, I certainly reject that notion. Granted I do not see much connection between fashion and drug use...I certainly do not smoke weed to be 'fashionable' I enjoy the effects I don't care if someone thinks its cool or not, if they do great if not they're certainly entitled to their opinion. Though I cannot say I have ever had anyone approach me and tell me I am cool for smoking a cigarette, weed or drinking....plenty of people are cool with it, meaning they are fine with it whether or not they partake themselves.

Also parties can be cool, to me the aren't as cool as some people seem to think they are, to me a camping trip is much cooler usually. Parties just tend to be too big, if you even try to smoke a cigarette or do something to yourself everyone wants to be in on it and much of the time music sucks or there ends up being drama and typically lots of standing around with nowhere to sit. I'd prefer a camping trip with a few people I actually know or at least have met a few times and can have fun with without feeling too awkward.

And how do you figure you don't use any recreational drugs if you drink wine every day? What do you figure that is medicine? a health supplement perhaps? sorry but statements like that just....wow

Maybe a lot of that impression is driven by marketing, which wants to make products seem cool, fashionable, sexy? Just like smoking used to be promoted that way, and we see through all the ad-speak of that so clearly now.

Personally I think alcohol is the most dangerous drug of all, both in the social cost, harm to non-users, and to the self (as a neurotoxin and a blurrer of reality and clarity). I drink a glass of champagne occasionally at weddings, birthdays, special occasions. It is now known (my favourite topic) that people deficient in the neurotransmitter GABA are more prone to nicotine addiction and there is some evidence that this is true for alcohol too (though not so much of it). Alcohol is a 'recreational' drug so far as I can see, I don't really get your distinction there; and a self-medicating one. What else is it?

I think it is...seems to work pretty well.

Sweetleaf your theory that nicotine could be helpful to neuroatypical people in some way has some research backing; people given nicotine inhalers (not cigarettes, though calibrated to deliver the same amount of nicotine to the brain) showed a 10% increase in the neurotransmitter GABA - the "calming" neurotransmitter which stops the others over-firing so that you get an overstimulated state when over-firing is happening; GABA puts a bit of a brake on that process. So the researchers concluded that people with autism (in particular) are biologically 'set-up' for cigarette addiction, more than NTs. Obviously inhalers are a much safer way to deliver nicotine to the brain as GABA agonists (promoters).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 092505.htm

I would say that it's more like autistics are prone to the kind black and white judgmental thinking that leads to blanket condemnations of things like drugs and alcohol than that they specifically have issues with those things, though it's tiresome nonetheless.