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Sedaka
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26 Mar 2007, 5:59 pm

im definitely a tomboy... always played outside in the dirt or on a game console and dressed in jeans and T-shirts. never squeemish during dissections and such in classes... i've even had some pretty icky jobs that could make that TV show "dirty jobs"...

though, i'm told i clean up very nicely... and i do enjoy dressing up once in a while. i love heals :) i was even miss art club in my highschool pageant... with purple and bottle-blond hair, lol!


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SteveK
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26 Mar 2007, 6:09 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
SteveK wrote:
In defense of the girly girls, I can understand because of desire to be interesting and/or society, etc..., that they want to do that. Also, I can certainly understand their lack of apparant social deficit, especially where lightning88 is concerned.

That in itself is no reason to look for another diagnosis. HEY, lightning88 ALSO said she was good in math. That is supposedly a MALE strength. That doesn't make her any less feminine!

And frankly gals, I like girly girls. They're ok in my book. The only think I hate is the stench of strong perfume.

Steve


LOL Do you think we do it because of society? Well, maybe some. I like it so I do it. I don't dress trendy, I dress in what I like.

I had to laugh at the diagnosis. I found it strange that most Aspie women on here wanted kids, nutured them, wanted to be stay at home moms and felt sex was related to feelings. Those are not extreme male traits at all. I'd have to say I'm more extreme male in my thinking there. But, as to telling anyone to get a diagnosis because they do want those things. Nah. I think all this fixation on diagnosis of a broad spectrum is kind of self defeating.


YEAH, I meant to mention THAT also! The aspie brain doesn't look to me like it is male or female, I think it is a hybrid. Parts of the brain supposedly basically atrophy. Those parts are supposed to be different for males and females. Some have said that some autistic brains are denser. Maybe the gender different parts don't atrophy. This could EVEN explain regression, that sometimes happens, as the denser brain may be forced to atrophy almost like the computer "game of life". It ALSO explains some strengths and quirks.

In any event, you can have two identical computers that run very differently. Who is to say that the sex is determined solely by brain anatomy.



Erilyn
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26 Mar 2007, 6:20 pm

As I replied in the thread in the women’s forum, I consider myself to be in between.

If I like anything girly, it’s strictly from an artistic point of view. I think flowers are pretty – but I don’t need a bouquet every once in a while to feel loved. I love what can be done with makeup, but I am equally (if not more) fascinated by Hollywood creature effects. I can like the look of certain fashion designs, but I won’t run out to buy them unless I think they might actually be comfortable (hallelujah long shirts are in again!! !)

My favourite toys as a child were probably my Barbies, hands down, but that’s because they were so versatile! I could make them pretty AND take them on adventures. Other girls always wanted to do fashion shows or have her go on dates with Ken. But I also played with GI Joes, matchbox cars, and plenty of other “boy” stuff.

My favourite cartoon was She-Ra – she was a girl AND she kicked ass. But I never really followed story lines much with cartoons – all of the shows I watched had to either have some visual appeal (Care Bears were sissy, but cute and colourful), some kind of novelty (like a girl who kicked ass), or something with wings and/or horses (She-Ra got lots of extra credit here – she rode a winged horse!)

Board games were a different story. I didn’t like girl-appropriate games at all because they forced you to act out the very things I disliked about traditional girl play – shopping, dates, gossip, etc. Blah.



Gaya
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26 Mar 2007, 6:37 pm

I think girly girls are that way because they want to be. I have cousins who are that way, and they've been like that ever since we were little.(I can at least present anecdotal evidence.) I believe my cousins genuinely enjoy being "girly", and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

Like other females who have replied, I am a "hybrid." I don't have one of those high-pitched, chirpy voices. I own high heels, but I don't wear them because they aren't comfortable. When it's warm, I like to wear dresses and skirts with combat boots. I have gone through addictive phases with women's magazines. I couldn't put Glamor down, even though I was aware that the magazine was poisoning my brain. I was intrinsically motivated to read the magazine, so I did. Now I try to stay away from women's magazines because the "information" they provide is often incorrect. Also, many of the things in those magazines are detrimental to the self esteem of someone like me, who does not have a "social life." I also do not have a boyfriend who "drinks beer with his buddies" during "the game." (I have a boyfriend who takes computers apart in the kitchen and plays video games).



Corvus
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26 Mar 2007, 6:43 pm

I dress like a guy, I do 'guy things' and I AM a guy so all good. :wink:



Anubis
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26 Mar 2007, 7:04 pm

Girly girls... not my type, I don't get on well when a girl goes on about things such as lipstick, cosmetics, fashion, soaps, that sort of thing.


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calandale
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26 Mar 2007, 7:06 pm

RaoulDuke wrote:
I wish Inventor would keep his ramblings to a minimum. I don't like scrolling through his multi-page, disjointed screeds.


There are gems in them, if you bother to look.



MsTriste
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26 Mar 2007, 7:13 pm

If I didn't have double D's I'd swear I was a guy.



Knasher
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26 Mar 2007, 7:30 pm

Personally I have no problem with girly girls, I think they are a bit weird, especially that shoe fetish thing that they all seem to have. Maybe its just me but I have NEVER noticed what shoes a girl is wearing, so if they need heels just to make them seem taller, or their legs longer then thats all good. But there is no point in have shoes to go with a dress because I really don't think anyone notices.
The only group of girls I have a problem with are cheerleaders, I watch TV, they are evil....EVIL I tell you.



karasu
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26 Mar 2007, 7:48 pm

Knasher wrote:
The only group of girls I have a problem with are cheerleaders, I watch TV, they are evil....EVIL I tell you.


This is a true story. When I was in karate in college, one term we got a new crop of girls (this was in summer when the beginning and intermediate classes were merged) and I was making nice-nice and greeting them. One was a tiny little blond thing and when I was chatting with her, introducing myself and stuff, she informed me she was a cheerleader.

I blurted the first thing that popped into my head: "I'm *so* sorry." I really meant it, too. Too bad for her....



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26 Mar 2007, 8:05 pm

can someone explain this to me?

i swear i was about to slap these girls...

after lunch had finally commenced and we were picking up our bags to drone to the next class, a girl had some mustard on her arm. "Ewww...i've got mustard on my arm! look! look!" "Oh, my gosh it's on your back pack!" "EW!! !" :?


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maldoror
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26 Mar 2007, 10:15 pm

I feel the same way about "he-man" type guys. Not that I'm immune to "being one of the guys", but I don't get how there's people out there that can unapoligetically, without any sense of irony, act like Ted Nugent. Doesn't that guy ever catch a glimpse of himself in the mirror inadvertantly and hear some little voice in the back of his mind tell him he's trying too hard?

By the way, Karasu, I like your avatar, for some reason I can't really put my finger on. Where is it from?



karasu
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26 Mar 2007, 10:26 pm

The avatar is from an awesome comic of awesomeness called "Leviathan". It is not as homey as Calvin and Hobbes, but it is definitely one of the finest comics out there.

Check it out (It seems to load slowly in Firefox or have some other problem...). My favorite is the "Orpheus" storyline. There's a collection out there called "The Book of Leviathan" which I need to get a copy of but haven't yet--have to wait until I get back to the States for that.



Knasher
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27 Mar 2007, 6:58 am

Quote:
I blurted the first thing that popped into my head: "I'm *so* sorry." I really meant it, too. Too bad for her....

I love it, what was her response?

Still tho aside from having no real problem with the exsistance of girly girls, I don't think I could ever be really involved with one. I wouldn't be able to help myself from looking down on them, is it not extremely sad for your entire personality to revolve around the dating scene and members of the opposite sex? Normal people should have something more to their lives, I mean come on how would you even hold a conversation with them?



Erilyn
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27 Mar 2007, 10:22 am

Knasher wrote:
But there is no point in have shoes to go with a dress because I really don't think anyone notices.


Actually, other women notice.

That's the thing - men think that women dress up and try to look all sexy just to impress MEN. But the people they are truly trying to impress are other women. I figured that out a long time ago. Women have this unspoken competition between themselves all the time.

I still remember back in high school overhearing two girls snickering because some other girl was wearing a navy sweater with black jeans. Like she'd just committed the ultimate fashion crime! I don't think any guy would ever have noticed. Hell, I would never have noticed.



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27 Mar 2007, 1:41 pm

Inventor wrote:
Once again female shows a wider range. A spectrum from almost boys to 100% pure girl.

While it is true some play girl for male attention, in dress, makeup, behavior, they learn such things from the naturals, who dont do it, they are it.

It is versitile, the last generation has shifted male, while demanding that males shift female, Unisex. Equality through everyone being the same. The parts they could not play they were against. Manly men and girly girls were both oppressed by the post feminist culture of the 1970s. Like most movements it tore down much more than it built.

Their goals were to be as good as men. So they state "We are not as good as men." They complained of a lack of equal opertunity, and ignored the fact that more women get degrees from Universities than men. They claimed to be barred from job oppertunities, and pointed out construction, heavy equiptment, truck driver, and even the military. There never were any barriors, and there are still very few women in these industries.

For some reason they were blind to the fact that overall they controlled 90% of education. Near 100% of Librarys, the information and education systems of the time. In the factories they did not run the machines, they pushed paper in an office. Most office workers were women. They were a privledged class, excluded from military service. The only thing that stood in their way was themselves. For some reason they did not want to be bothered with the responsability of running the places they worked.

They lacked managment ability. They just wanted to come to work, do their time, and leave. The idea of living the job was alien to them. Taking responsability for performance, thinking ahead, dedication. Men had to be brought in to take those jobs, for none of the women even applied. They thought it natural that women should be most of the school teachers, because the students were children, and they did dominated children, and loved the power. They skipped on the teach them part, education nosedived in performance.

Men who lived the job, took personal responsability, put in eighty hours a week, made more money, so women demanded equal pay. Equal work had been offered, they turned it down, but still wanted the pay.

The answer was, The Equal Rights Amendment, ERA. They should be given what those who worked twice as hard got. They had been offered overtime, training, the path to advancement, but that cut into getting their hair done, dating, and we know what that means, or something, they turned it down.

They got their revenge by raising their daughters to be less girly, equating being themselves with failure. Their girls were going to be just like men. Dolls and dresses were played down, girls have always done better than boys in school, but no more Home Economics for them. They were going to improve females by being less female. They had identified the problem.

Great progress has been made. Come the next war all you girls get Draft Notices. We are all equal now.
Hourly workers get hourly wages, and if you want the salery, you will put in the hours that have always gone with the money. All employees are treated equal, so your continued employment is based only on performance.

Couples formed for a range of skills to have a home and family. It is something a man would give his whole life for. There is no point in getting married to another man. Two incomes do not a home make, only a larger tax bill. The IRS loves girls. Producing and raising children is being sent offshore, the service is over priced and performance unstable.

Too many women have come home, packed, said, I got a better job offer, so I am selling the house, I cleaned out the joint bank accounts, and I am leaving you, taking the children, and your paycheck for the next fifteen years. As it was a promotion, she could get a better, house, man, and had "her" children to go with it.

Marriage oppresses women, so we are dropping it. After the high point of Women's Rights, it is their children who are rebelling. Mom married three times, so I have three dads, two sets of half siblings, three half families, and they are all strangers to me. Familiy reunions are fun. No one wants to be ex-husband II, and still paying for it.

Women were raised to judge things by money, they had abortions because it was going to cut into their earning potential. They divorced when it was a sharp and profiable business move. Serial Brides have ended more lives and caused more economic damage than Serial Killers. Dont ride with strangers.

You are now equal. You pay rent because you will not work hard enough to own, nor will you make long term commitments. Job advancement goes to those who work. You have most likely peaked. That is it. You are now a unisex drone, you will trudge on alone till you retire, and will still be alone. While you are young you can trade sex for attention, and will be judged like the other boys who do that.

After thirty-five you will become invisable, except to bill collectors. Since your job skills will not improve with age, there will be less jobs, more competition, and lower pay in your future. Welcome to the world of men. It has always taken teamwork to maintain a home and family, you are not team players.

Girly girls still exist, they take three baths a day, spend all their time on frilly looks, live before a mirror practicing, and do not care about a drivers license, just the legal age to marry. They want to move to Alabama where fourteen is free to marry, and are oppressed by waiting to eighteen in dumb states.

They just want a man and a house, and everything delivered. They are happy to spend every day making a home for their man. He never knows what he will come home to, sometimes a little girl having a tea party, other times a sex starved vixen, or perhaps a trail of rose petals leading to the bedroom, and at the end of the trail, a girl who could not think of a thing to wear.

Sometimes she is upset, her last pair of stocking has a run, she can not get the top off a bottle, and a wise man knows to calm her by promising to write a strong letter to the manufacturer, and order her more, for she looks so cute doing house work in just high heels, stockings, and earrings. She spends her days bathing, shaving everything from the neck down, primping and oiling, and never goes out in the sun and wind. Someday she will drive a car, go out in the world, but not till she has children, and becomes the best mom ever.

First she is going to be a wife for ten years, fifteen if she lived in Alabama, and be cute and lovable. When she does leave the house it is fully dressed to impress, as a wife worth keeping. Her man does not mind buying her clothes. He does not make dinner reservations, he goes and meets the Matrade, slips him a hundred, and when he arrives with wife, is greeted as Mr. and the Lovely Mrs. Smith. Other tables get one waiter part time, he has two full time. She has the best view, where everyone can see her, no one sits near, she is the star attraction.

Most of what she wants in life comes from the Victoria's Secret catalog. She is not expensive to keep.

She does not want a car, or to go out much, she eats little. The house is always clean, and she freshly bathed when her man comes home. At the door she strips him of briefcase, tie, coat, shoes, for she likes to touch him. She learns to cook what he likes, his dinner is better than the best. She pretends to eat with him, and listens when he talks of work. And when he calms down from the day, draws an hot bath for him to relax in, she loves being a bath attendant, doing his nails, pumice stoning his feet, and drying him off. She is very good at shaving, and touching. He is revived for another day, and it is only eight o'clock.

If he has work to do she understands, for if she did not he would stay at the office later, and she lives to have him home. Her turn will come, she does not want him thinking of something else when it is her time. After he goes to sleep she softly slides out of bed and goes to wash the dishes, lay out his clothes for the next day, and makes his morning perfect. She naps in the afternoon, sleep twice a day, so is up early with coffee when he awakes. When he goes forth to meet the day he is happy and worry free.

His dear wife wanted a little house, something he could more than afford, spends money, only on things to make him happy, and by the time they have children, the house will be paid for, and they can get a bigger one for raising children. The lack of stress keeps them both young and healthy, they are happy. If he wants to work longer hours to get ahead, she will say, do what you need to do, I do not understand manly things, just let me know when you are coming home, and I will be waiting for you with dinner and love.

She is not just a housewife, she does not understand why there is not a Mrs. Universe Contest for perfect wives. It is the most important job in life. She does not let it bother her, or anything else, she will be the perfect, wife, the perfect mother, and the perfect woman.

The only threat to her life is some younger woman trying to take her man, but he is happy with what he has, and they do not stand a chance. She gives him shelter from the world, his home, his wife, his children, his family, his life, and he can ask no more.

There will be younger girls he sees, but they will not be as female, and you can never tell where they have been, or who used them last. He will be home after work every day, and when he sees his wife, will say, "You know, I really like you." She knows.


I don't know Inventor... I think the real revenge taken is by the daughters of these women, who more and more now are choosing to stay home to raise their children (or wishing like hell they could), and who are turning down significant careers in favor of family (I personally know one woman who threw out her Columbia law degree to raise her two young boys). And another revenge is the fact that family courts are favoring mothers less and less, if at all. If a woman files for divorce these days she is absolutely not guaranteed custody of her children, probably won't get alimony, and due to shared custody situations, will not get as much child support as once would have been determined.

Home economics might be out of the curriculum but the craft business is booming. Quilting, knitting, you name it. Companies like Michaels and Joannes are raking in money because many women still love doing home economics type things. It's not so easy to shed something as intrinsic as gender. The first couple generations of feminists might have been naive enough to expect this, but their daughters are biting them in the butts.