WTF Article claims Positive Effects of Bullying Autistics

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Norny
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15 Oct 2015, 12:17 am

Bullying is totally a good thing, because leaving somebody feeling irreparable doesn't destroy lives at all. /sarcasm

Joke of an article and what I would presume to be complete lack of relevant experience from the b***h that wrote it.

Adversity and having others dislike you are a normal part of growing up and coddling (IMO) definitely results in far worse, but bullying? Similarly, accidentally burning yourself as a kid teaches you not to touch hot objects, but surviving a fire with severe burns? Yeah no, I'd really rather not.


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League_Girl
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15 Oct 2015, 1:47 am

I think the article is being taken way out of context here.


beakybird wrote:
I don't know, maybe I'm in a very small minority here, but I get what she is trying to say.

Learning how to deal with people who don't like you, for whatever reason (or none at all) is a very valuable lesson to learn. In life, people will dislike you. Often. People who dislike you will often mistreat you. Learning to accept those things internally and also knowing how to take care of them is important to learn. Even if it comes with uncomfortable situations.

I still believe in many old school thought processes myself. More is to be gained in difficulty than coddling.

Again I'm sure im in a very small minority here on this one.


This was the same thought I had what the author was talking about but if she is really saying what you think she is really saying, that is scary stuff.


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luan78zao
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15 Oct 2015, 2:05 am

I actually felt sick reading that. Complete rubbish.


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B19
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15 Oct 2015, 2:20 am

This doctor's article really expresses something very valid about the overall issue from my perspective, and I agree with what she writes:

http://www.stefdelacruz.com/2015/06/apo ... lying.html



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15 Oct 2015, 3:09 am

Edenthiel wrote:
B19 wrote:
I would not be surprised either if Miss Wonderful Therapist has links - covert or overt - to our old friends (not) in Autism Speaks.


https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-app ... u%E2%84%A2

f*****g puzzle piece right at the top of the very first page on her promotional website is more evidence.


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LoveNotHate
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15 Oct 2015, 4:16 am

League_Girl wrote:
I think the article is being taken way out of context here.



Yeah... apparently most here think ...

when parents find out their kid was bullied, their response should not be to take the positive steps the author states, but rather tell their ASD kid, "tough luck kid, it sucks, nothing to learn from it, nothing positive can change from it, just take the abuse next time ..."



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15 Oct 2015, 4:24 am

Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger :roll:



B19
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15 Oct 2015, 4:31 am

LoveNotHate, did you read the Lancet research embedded in the apologist critique link posted by me earlier in this thread, about the finding that bullying had much more severe longterm outcomes than child abuse on mental health? The design is a very creditable methodology and the sample sizes very impressive. It's hard to misrepresent that finding.

It's available embedded in the post I made on this thread at 8.20pm, I can't connect you directly to the Lancet as it is a subscription journal website.



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15 Oct 2015, 4:55 am

There is a huge difference between learning to handle a conflict between one person and another person - it usually involves some kind of structured communication - and learning to handle a conflict between a person and a group.

The best way to handle it is usually for the person to run away, because it is difficult for one person to convince a group of people to see things from his perspective when they all agree on something else. It's a lose-lose scenario.

The problem with schools is that you can't of course run away.

I wonder if the older generation, even though they were less likely to have been diagnosed and given treatment, have had more opportunity to build self-esteem simply because they had more personal freedom growing up.



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15 Oct 2015, 5:20 am

EzraS wrote:
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger :roll:


Yeah! As everybody knows, gouging both your eyes out, cutting off one of your arms and one of your legs, and containing the bleeding only when you've lost just the right amount of blood so you don't die totally makes you stronger :D


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B19
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15 Oct 2015, 5:21 am

I am definitely in that generation. Alas we didn't have the freedom to go about our days and be protected from bullies. I well recall being burnt with a soldering iron, having my mouth held open while someone spat in it, having stones thrown at my eyes, being punched in the stomach and having my arm twisted up my back, hit over the head with a piece of wood, having lit fireworks thrown at me...

None of that cruelty and evil advanced my life, my character nor my interests - the lack of safety from bullies at school, on the way to and from school and at home only taught me what an incredibly unsafe world I existed in. The school bullies started when I was 8; at 11, I tried to starve myself to death as there was not one single safe adult to offer protection, and that was the only way I could think of at the time. Pain day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, year in year out - every single nanosecond was destructive to my well-being and the time and effort spent recovering from trauma stole subsequent years away from other things which would have been positive - so the bullies actually stole time from my later life too. How is that positive exactly?? I seem to be missing your moral points about how it was supposed to be so good for me..

Freedom? Character building? I can't relate to those ideas in any way whatsoever - the success in my later life was in spite of the bullies and the bystanders who did nothing, not because of them. It is grossly offensive to suggest that I succeeded in life because of those brutal bullies who tortured me because they could, for their pleasure. The apologist view taken to its greatest absurdity would be that the Holocaust "built character" in the survivors - same kind of argument taken to the ultimate offensive extreme. Except that in the case of the victims and survivors of the bullies I remember, there was never any justice for the victims, no safe country to go to, no acknowledgment by the adults who looked the other way and let it happen.

I built my own character, and for anyone else to try to apportion credit for that to those brutal cowards offends me so deeply that I lack the words to express the repugnance I feel.



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15 Oct 2015, 5:38 am

B19 wrote:
LoveNotHate, did you read the Lancet research embedded in the apologist critique link posted by me earlier in this thread, about the finding that bullying had much more severe longterm outcomes than child abuse on mental health? The design is a very creditable methodology and the sample sizes very impressive. It's hard to misrepresent that finding.

It's available embedded in the post I made on this thread at 8.20pm, I can't connect you directly to the Lancet as it is a subscription journal website.


Yes, I read it earlier.

So, you're saying when parents find out their kid was bullied, their response should not be to take the positive steps the author states?

Why wouldn't you? Don't you want the bullying to stop ?



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15 Oct 2015, 6:00 am

If bullying is actually good for you, why try to stop it? The more you're bullied, the better!


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LoveNotHate
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15 Oct 2015, 6:06 am

Spiderpig wrote:
If bullying is actually good for you, why try to stop it? The more you're bullied, the better!


The author never said bullying is good.

She is writing to parents saying that are good opportunities to pursue if it happens.



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15 Oct 2015, 6:58 am

B19 wrote:
I am definitely in that generation. Alas we didn't have the freedom to go about our days and be protected from bullies. I well recall being burnt with a soldering iron, having my mouth held open while someone spat in it, having stones thrown at my eyes, being punched in the stomach and having my arm twisted up my back, hit over the head with a piece of wood, having lit fireworks thrown at me...

None of that cruelty and evil advanced my life, my character nor my interests - the lack of safety from bullies at school, on the way to and from school and at home only taught me what an incredibly unsafe world I existed in. The school bullies started when I was 8; at 11, I tried to starve myself to death as there was not one single safe adult to offer protection, and that was the only way I could think of at the time. Pain day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, year in year out - every single nanosecond was destructive to my well-being and the time and effort spent recovering from trauma stole subsequent years away from other things which would have been positive - so the bullies actually stole time from my later life too. How is that positive exactly?? I seem to be missing your moral points about how it was supposed to be so good for me..

Freedom? Character building? I can't relate to those ideas in any way whatsoever - the success in my later life was in spite of the bullies and the bystanders who did nothing, not because of them. It is grossly offensive to suggest that I succeeded in life because of those brutal bullies who tortured me because they could, for their pleasure. The apologist view taken to its greatest absurdity would be that the Holocaust "built character" in the survivors - same kind of argument taken to the ultimate offensive extreme. Except that in the case of the victims and survivors of the bullies I remember, there was never any justice for the victims, no safe country to go to, no acknowledgment by the adults who looked the other way and let it happen.

I built my own character, and for anyone else to try to apportion credit for that to those brutal cowards offends me so deeply that I lack the words to express the repugnance I feel.


Ummm.....were you replying to my post? Or to the original article? I can only assume it was mine because I was the only person to mention the word freedom.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that - and no, it's not not character building.

And yeah, all credible research suggests that bullying has dramatically negative effects on both mental and physical health. Also, I doubt it's healthy for kids to grow up as bullies either.

I hope you don't think I agree with the original article. What I was trying to point out was the structural inequality between one person and a group. It's like people who think they are not benefiting from racism because they themselves are not racist - and completely missing the point that they receive privileges other people are not given. In the same way, for ex. teachers who try to mediate between a group of bullies can fall into the trap of assuming that both parties are equal.

I was perhaps wrong to talk about it as an age thing. I had a lot of physical freedom in my childhood, and my parents even more - my mother used to run away by going for long walks. It's perhaps more a question of living in a rural setting, not village style. In my head all older people are from the countryside, I realize that is a huge generalization. I'm sorry I managed to trigger all your worst feelings. Obviously, your experience was quite different. What I was thinking of was more along the lines of what Cynthia Kim and Iris Johansson were describing about their childhood - having somewhere to escape to, to calm down, be safe from bullies and have one's own private world. This seems to be something you never had. I had that, and I think it mitigated some of the negative effects of being trapped in a negative school environment day in and day out.

I always felt more safe with older teachers because they didn't allow any shenanigans in the classroom. Again, these things can be so random; the kind of family a child grows up in, local culture, socio-economic factors, and so forth. I'd say, though, that the more violence there is in a community in general, the worse it gets for those who deviate from the norm.

If it was my post you reacted to, I apologize for my poor understanding. I can assure you that I think the original article is a load of bull, probably written to provoke people and increase clicks, so that this woman can get attention from gullible parents.



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15 Oct 2015, 7:44 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think the article is being taken way out of context here.



Yeah... apparently most here think ...

when parents find out their kid was bullied, their response should not be to take the positive steps the author states, but rather tell their ASD kid, "tough luck kid, it sucks, nothing to learn from it, nothing positive can change from it, just take the abuse next time ..."


I don't understand...who said this? I was really surprised to read that.

Many of us object to the idea of placing bullying in a positive light, claiming it builds skills and character, etc. - that doesn't mean we tell our kids tough luck and to take the abuse. You may be misunderstanding some of the replies here.