Page 3 of 4 [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

jkrane
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 737
Location: 39uqlksdj3ujadlskd

03 Jun 2016, 6:22 am

MR TV wrote:
What do people in this forum think of the "refrigerator Mom" theory, that autism is caused by mothers who are cold to their children and that autism is a condition caused by a failure to bond properly with the mother? In Peter Breggin's book, "Toxic Psychiatry", he has a slightly different version, that autism is caused by parents who treat their children like objects. The "refrigerator mom" theory has pretty much been replaced with genetic theories of autism, but as Breggin points out, the genetic theories have very little evidence to support them. Both of my parents treated me like an object, and I definitely have some problems bonding with my mother. I tend to believe the "refrigerator mom" theory. What do people in this forum think?


You're thinking of Borderline Personality Disorder.

Autism is caused by neurological damage to the fetus during pregnancy, a fever during pregnancy, or just bad luck.



Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1027
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

03 Jun 2016, 7:14 am

Alright, returning to this anomaly (and removing all ideas about para-normal influences), and after having reviewed the works of Dr. Russell Blaylock (a Neuro-Surgeon), I have to conclude that there came a time in our semi-recent history where various additives and preservatives being added into the human-consumption supplies would be able to contribute into a baby's interpretation of unsafe-environments, even with stellar parents. Whilst I am not Anti-Vaccine, and do not regard anything wrong with Vaccines in of themselves, I am aware that there have been Additives that were added into them since slightly after the mid-part of last century. Amongst those additives is something called Thimerosol, a type of Mercury, and is scientifically confirmed to be a Neuro-Toxin as can be read and confirmed in this following Scientific-Document...

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1175560-overview

The number of Vaccinations and Flu-Shots had increased also since around that time-period. I have reason to believe that the existence or presence of neuro-toxins in a mother's body, a mother who is a smoker, a mother who may have drank alcoholic-beverages during the particular vital-stages of pregnancy, a mother who may have been exposed to other forms of stress or somehow got any other kinds of contaminants or neuro-toxins into her blood-stream, can be enough to trigger the activation of Autism-Genes, due to the presence of Neuro-Toxins within a Mother's Body being interpreted by the Baby as an Environment that is Unsafe, similar to the Dutch Hunger-Effect. I am also aware that the whole Thimerisol-in-Vaccinations idea is full of Controversy, but Dr. Blaylock's works seem to be well-documented, and I will just post a screen-shot of a response to someone who attempted to claim that Blaylock was somehow thoroughly debunked with nothing peer-reviewed, when in fact there is a huge list of peer-reviewed studies that we can all read for ourselves...
Image
Image
Image
Image
I will need a bunch of time in order to personally review and double-check on the thoroughness of this research but, for the most part, I already trust Dr. Russell Blaylock's research and reputation and credentials to be reputable, although I sometimes still managed to find mistakes in some of the works of people whom I highly respect (this even includes occasional things that I had even helped to correct for the very Messiah himself!).

skibum wrote:
Then how do you explain Autistic children being born to families where both parents are loving and affectionate and nurturing even from before conception and all the way after the baby is born? There are plenty of loving, wonderful exemplary couples who are together and support each other completely during the entire pregnancy. Many fathers are very affectionate and gentle and loving and protective with their unborn babies showing that affection through the mother. They still end up with Autistic children. I know how my father was. I know my father and I have a much younger sibling and I saw first hand how wonderful my father was with my mom when she was pregnant. And I have seen both of my parents care for and love infants. They were shining examples of great pregnant and young parents to babies. But I am Autistic and my sibling has another mental illness which is known to be caused from the same genes as those that cause Autism.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


skibum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2013
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,449
Location: my own little world

03 Jun 2016, 12:19 pm

Ban Dodger, just for the record, I think you are cool but you are not going to convince me to change my understanding about the causes of Autism. I do appreciate your position though and your evidences that you are presenting.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


Edenthiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,820
Location: S.F Bay Area

03 Jun 2016, 4:34 pm

Ban-Dodger, my apologies, but I'm a bit confused by your assertion. Are you advocating a position somewhat akin to epigenics, that statistically there appears to be a genetic component but the expression of those genes is moderated by such a complex set of chemical conditions that at present it's impossible to simply do a large scale analysis to suss out the genes that are responsible when they actually are expressed at just the right moment (and possibly only in conjunction with others)?


_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan


Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1027
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

03 Jun 2016, 7:10 pm

skibum wrote:
Ban Dodger, just for the record, I think you are cool but you are not going to convince me to change my understanding about the causes of Autism. I do appreciate your position though and your evidences that you are presenting.

Well enough. I cannot and will not claim to be an expert on causes of Autisms as it is not something in which I have delved into for thousands worth of of hours (unlike other subjects such as both regular and para-psychology). What is your understanding as to its causes ? Then I also have another anomaly to add which I will answer simultaneously in response to the next forumer...
Edenthiel wrote:
Ban-Dodger, my apologies, but I'm a bit confused by your assertion. Are you advocating a position somewhat akin to epigenics, that statistically there appears to be a genetic component but the expression of those genes is moderated by such a complex set of chemical conditions that at present it's impossible to simply do a large scale analysis to suss out the genes that are responsible when they actually are expressed at just the right moment (and possibly only in conjunction with others)?

I am not so much advocating a "position" over rather expressing my current impressions that are based on information I have come across thus far combined with some levels of personal-experiences. I think if things were think-tanked enough then it would be possible to get more clues as to what the real root-causes for autism actually are. Personally, I would like for groups of Remote-Viewers to try and obtain perceptual-data that may give clues as to what might really be causing autism, and as for the Epi-Genetics of it all, let me just say that I have come across accounts of people who were once autistic, had severe levels of autism, etc., but simply changing what they ate and becoming more physically active seemed to be enough to get them to be able to live a more "normal" life with "normal" social-interactions; that gives me the impression that, even if a condition were genetic, that it may be possible for its activation and also its de-activation under certain circumstances/conditions.

Were I to advocate having a "position" that X is definitely due to Y then that would make me a hypocrite to my very own forum-signature... ;o


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Ettina
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,971

04 Jun 2016, 10:24 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Now to also quote my previous reply again in case anybody missed it for some reason...


I'm not sure what that screen shot has to do with anything. And even if it was on the same topic, comments on a video are not evidence.

Actually, if you don't understand the difference between YouTube comments and scientific evidence, that might explain a lot of the bizarre things you believe.



Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1027
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

04 Jun 2016, 2:28 pm

Perhaps I should direct-quote those reference-links to the peer-reviewed medical-studies instead ?
Most people also cannot seem to identify corporate-science as being a type of pseudo-science.
I always want to know who has funded any particular area of research; sometimes it's a corporation.
I am also fully aware of the beliefs amongst Western-cultures that X or Y or Z has been "debunked" but alas...

http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/u-s-me ... se-autism/

...within the above-linked article, and I quote from the above-linked article, some of the following...

Article wrote:
The decision flew in the face of the conventional mainstream medical wisdom that an MMR-autism link has been “debunked.”

Article wrote:
While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent.

Article wrote:
As in the Milan case, the Ministry of Health’s compensation program had denied compensation to the family, yet after a presentation of medical evidence, a court granted compensation. There, too, the Italian press covered the story; the U.S. press did not.

Article wrote:
The courts’ decisions are striking because they not only find a vaccine-autism causal link, but they also overrule the decisions of Italy’s Ministry of Health. And taken together, the court decisions found that both the MMR and a hexavalent thimerosal- and aluminum-containing vaccine can trigger autism.

And if that was not damning enough against the beliefs that Thimerosol/Mercury has no link to Autism...
Article wrote:
Presiding Judge Nicola Di Leo considered another piece of damning evidence: a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report (now available on the Internet). This industry document provided ample evidence of adverse events from the vaccine, including five known cases of autism resulting from the vaccine’s administration during its clinical trials (see table at page 626, excerpt below).
Image

Additionally, I am not merely looking at You-Tube comments, although I certainly do browse through them to see what kinds of opinions or criticisms that some of the public may have about certain uploads, also keeping in mind the existence of Astro-Turfing and Sock-Puppets, that I have to take into consideration, and looking at everything with a grain of salt at the very minimum. Regarding diet curing Autism, although I do not remember the specific video-link, assuming that I remembered it correctly, one individual who used to be autistic made an upload and explained about how changing his diet and eating habits (and maybe taking the right supplements) managed to get him off the Autistic-Spectrum.

Testimonials and anectodal-evidence may not necessarily be a "scientific" reference-point but subjective experiences cannot be measured scientifically in the first instance (specific case-in-point example : feel free to attach as many electrodes to my body as you want and see if you can get the instrument to accurately report my exact emotion at any particular given moment). I felt a compelled necessity to have "unsubscribed" from "corporate" sciences a long time ago due to something known in the Legal-System called Conflict-of-Interest. Historically, any time I see the word "debunk(ed)", due to my background in double-checking the same claims in the fields of para-psychology, I am now always forced to conclude that I will always find more behind a story than claimed by the debunkers.

Ettina wrote:
Ban-Dodger wrote:
Now to also quote my previous reply again in case anybody missed it for some reason...


I'm not sure what that screen shot has to do with anything. And even if it was on the same topic, comments on a video are not evidence.

Actually, if you don't understand the difference between YouTube comments and scientific evidence, that might explain a lot of the bizarre things you believe.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Rundownshoe14
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 83

06 Jun 2016, 11:56 am

Last time I remember once there was mercury in vaccines,they were the older ones,but it has been removed.Well what do I know?
But I doubt it's because of vaccines.


_________________
"Two things are infinite:
The universe and human stupidity;and I'm not sure of the universe"-Albert Einstein


ResilientBrilliance
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 280

08 Jun 2016, 2:30 pm

Several posters have said that the refrigerator mom theory has been debunked. When was it debunked? Who debunked it? I'm curious about how the theory was proved to be invalid and would like to know more. So far, I don't see anything farfetched about this theory.



underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

08 Jun 2016, 2:39 pm

The refrigerator mother theory was also used to explain schizophrenia - yet as far as I know schizophrenia is now commonly considered to be caused by genetic factors.


_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.


Mbowx
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 61
Location: England

08 Jun 2016, 3:04 pm

Children who have experience trauma/abuse which would include neglect and emotional abuse are likely to have an attachment disorder and suffer from complex trauma the presentation of these can look similar to autism in some cases but are not the same. Trauma effects the development of neural pathways and the stress response system and this then impacts on a persons ability to integrate sensory information. Their is now significant scientific evidence for psychodynamics and elements of psychoanalytic theory as we can now see how trauma effects the brain and what the impact of psychodynamic practice has on enabling self regulation and relationship building. If you wish to know more I would suggest reading Bruce Perry or Bessel van der Kolk. For attachment disorders I would read Kliene, Bolby or Winnicot. There is significant evidence that Kanner wasn't entirely honest or up front about his so called discover of autism and had some significant bias. As for who debunked the theory, well it was Kanner's theory and he eventually stepped away from and criticised others for using it. The list of people who have shown it to be inaccurate is incredibly long.


_________________
“When you consider things like the stars, our affairs don’t seem to matter very much, do they?” Virginia Woolf


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,566
Location: Long Island, New York

08 Jun 2016, 3:10 pm

The refrigerator mother theory is that the refrigerator mother or parent are the sole cause of autism in thier children. It started to be debuked when people started notice that in families some children were autistic while thier sibilings were not. Studies in the 1970's and beyond showed heritability


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

08 Jun 2016, 3:25 pm

ResilientBrilliance wrote:
Several posters have said that the refrigerator mom theory has been debunked. When was it debunked? Who debunked it? I'm curious about how the theory was proved to be invalid and would like to know more. So far, I don't see anything farfetched about this theory.


you're only 24.

The rise and fall of the theory all occurred before a quarter century before you were born. It was gradually abandoned in the mid Sixties because of the total lack of evidence for it, and the mounting evidence against it.

Many parents of autistics are not "refrigoratorish", and NT, and autistic, siblings often occur in the same family.



Eloa
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,223

08 Jun 2016, 3:28 pm

Mbowx wrote:
Children who have experience trauma/abuse which would include neglect and emotional abuse are likely to have an attachment disorder and suffer from complex trauma the presentation of these can look similar to autism in some cases but are not the same. Trauma effects the development of neural pathways and the stress response system and this then impacts on a persons ability to integrate sensory information. Their is now significant scientific evidence for psychodynamics and elements of psychoanalytic theory as we can now see how trauma effects the brain and what the impact of psychodynamic practice has on enabling self regulation and relationship building. If you wish to know more I would suggest reading Bruce Perry or Bessel van der Kolk. For attachment disorders I would read Kliene, Bolby or Winnicot. There is significant evidence that Kanner wasn't entirely honest or up front about his so called discover of autism and had some significant bias. As for who debunked the theory, well it was Kanner's theory and he eventually stepped away from and criticised others for using it. The list of people who have shown it to be inaccurate is incredibly long.

Have you read the work of Laurence Heller?
He has done a lot of research into it as well.
He refers to it as developmental trauma.
Though I think that it describes rather schizoid personality disorder but it can be hard to differenciate from HFA.
I recall reading that Van der Kolk et al. tried to get developmental trauma as a recognized disorder for DSM V but it failed due to reasons I cannot remember anymore, must look it up again.


_________________
English is not my native language, so I will very likely do mistakes in writing or understanding. My edits are due to corrections of mistakes, which I sometimes recognize just after submitting a text.


Mbowx
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 61
Location: England

08 Jun 2016, 3:34 pm

Thanks I'll give Laurence Heller a go. They did try to get it recognised, it would seem that the term was to broad and covered areas that come under other diagnosis's. There was a lot of talk about it being a political decision as well. Don't really know what the truth is.


_________________
“When you consider things like the stars, our affairs don’t seem to matter very much, do they?” Virginia Woolf


ResilientBrilliance
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 280

11 Jun 2016, 12:44 pm

Mbowx wrote:
Children who have experience trauma/abuse which would include neglect and emotional abuse are likely to have an attachment disorder and suffer from complex trauma the presentation of these can look similar to autism in some cases but are not the same. Trauma effects the development of neural pathways and the stress response system and this then impacts on a persons ability to integrate sensory information. Their is now significant scientific evidence for psychodynamics and elements of psychoanalytic theory as we can now see how trauma effects the brain and what the impact of psychodynamic practice has on enabling self regulation and relationship building. If you wish to know more I would suggest reading Bruce Perry or Bessel van der Kolk. For attachment disorders I would read Kliene, Bolby or Winnicot. There is significant evidence that Kanner wasn't entirely honest or up front about his so called discover of autism and had some significant bias. As for who debunked the theory, well it was Kanner's theory and he eventually stepped away from and criticised others for using it. The list of people who have shown it to be inaccurate is incredibly long.

Thank you, I will definitely look for research from those authors.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The refrigerator mother theory is that the refrigerator mother or parent are the sole cause of autism in thier children. It started to be debuked when people started notice that in families some children were autistic while thier sibilings were not. Studies in the 1970's and beyond showed heritability

That's a good point, since if the root of autism was solely the parent's fault, then all their children would have autism.