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katy_rome
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30 Sep 2016, 2:01 pm

somanyspoons wrote:
We know that environmental stressors can lower IQ levels in infants and that it can cause problems later in life with emotional challenges like depression.

My opinion is that environmental stressors make autism more noticeable by stripping away some of the factors that make it easier to cope, but that they do not cause the autism in itself.

We all know that people with high IQs are more able to "pass" than those who have lower than average IQs.

For example, we know that being raised around farms that use pestisides lowers IQ. So the autistic kids who were raised on those farms would be more likely to be identified than those raised in the alps somewhere, where the air is crystal clear. Because statistically, they wouldn't have the same IQ boost as those raised without pesticide exposure. But they won't be more likely to be autistic, just to need more help with the autism.


Somanyspoons, I'm interested in what you think those environmental factors might be?
Do you mean just .. i don't know, toxins, diet or whatever, or also emotional and relationship factors?



katy_rome
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30 Sep 2016, 2:55 pm

Everyone is different, and when they're born this is already true. Therefore comparing two people subjected to the same environment, while very useful, I think has its limitations.

Autism.. it seems most agree that it can be aggravated by certain things, maybe we can go as far as to say that a person may fall at different points on the spectrum, depending on their experiences? Also perhaps that a person can occupy different points on that spectrum at different phases in their life?

So autistic people are born with something, that we've established. But what? Are they born with certain character traits, or an illness? Is it positive or negative? A disorder, or not?
It seems it depends.. but on what???

Maybe we need to look closer at what we mean by 'autism'. Are we looking at..
1. autism defined as the particular qualities you are born with, it seems to me these are heightened sensitivity and empathy (even if that results in a defensive shutdown causing lack of connection with others) or,
2. autism defined as the symptoms and problems with functioning in life, that these people often experience?

So perhaps we can now say:
Number one is innate, it is caused by genetics.
Number two is caused (though it can be changed during life) by environmental factors. Which I believe can be anything from birth or in utero trauma, illness, allergies or reactions to toxins.. to parenting and schooling methods, and presence or lack of positive and nurturing surroundings and relationships.

What I kind of like about this idea, is that it would mean everyone is right. All of our observations are valid :)



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30 Sep 2016, 3:43 pm

The cause of autism is people who don't have it. The general population need constant reassurance that their own behaviour and lifestyle is 'normal'. To do that they have to highlight what they believe is not normal as much as what is.

Back in the 1970s my parents didn't know anything about autism, they thought because I was sensitive to everything and reluctant to go through all of the stupid rituals you're expected to go through as a child that I must be gay, which was the obvious "not normal" condition of the day. Now it's autism, but the more people diagnosed the more normal it becomes, to the point they'll eventually have to find some other justification for putting on the big act.



katy_rome
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30 Sep 2016, 4:08 pm

'Neurotypical Syndrome is a neurobiological disorder characterized by preoccupation with social concerns, delusions of superiority, and obsession with conformity. There is no known cure.'

(Laura Tisoncik, quoted in the book 'Neurotribes')

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30 Sep 2016, 8:16 pm

I think there are many different causes of autism, and it is different for each person. I think that autism is not a condition like we think of; it is a symptom of something else, like a genetic change or something in the environment.

So maybe all the theories of autism's origins are correct (except for the ridiculous ones like traffic). Maybe for some, it is in their genes while for others it is caused by toxins or even vaccines. (DON'T START A VACCINE DEBATE, PLEASE. I'm pro-vaccine by the way.)


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01 Oct 2016, 7:09 am

According to some, god created everything. So presumably he's the guilty party.


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01 Oct 2016, 7:30 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
I was pretty sick my entire pregnancy. I gained very little weight while pregnant. I also had a lot of emotional stress. Fun times. It's probably a wonder my son was as healthy as he was.

It could be a cue. My mom was dieting during pregnancy because she was afraid of gaining weight and the increasing belly was causing her huge stress. She tells me proudly that she returned to her original weight the next day after giving birth...
I don't know if that caused my Asperger but I was very tall and slim baby(baby with adult proportions, 55cms, 3,2kg, born on time although 2 weeks early) and I am forever underweight (BMI under 18,5) no matter how much I eat.



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01 Oct 2016, 8:17 am

What is almost certain: it is NOT caused by bad upbringing (though surviving a dysfunctional family and the resulting neurosis may well be co-morbid with autism).

It is NOT caused by "refrigorator moms".

Besides that its hard to say.

you're born with it.

With most folks its probably mostly genetic, or epi genetic. And they ARE finding genes associated with autism.And autism does seem to run in families.

But with many it maybe mostly environmental (fetal alcohol syndrome, or the like).

We are a long way from unraveling it all.



johnnyh
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01 Oct 2016, 8:32 am

I checked Autism rates in some countries (of course it's impossible to even get a close estimate without some mandatory census of the entire population).

I would expect rates to be higher in the USA compared to Denmark, but no. The USA with more pollution, artificial food flavorings, unhealthy food, smoking, and chemicals. Two possibilities come to mind, the estimation is flawed or the genetic homogeneity of Denmark offsets the benefits their healthier lifestyles in the risk of getting autism.

I suppose a lot of our genetic diseases missing from animals come from our inbred nature. Humans are very very homogeneous.

Edit: One thing this estimate didn't do is note how severe the autism is.
Has autism increased? Maybe not.
Has the severity been going up? Possibly, and it could be a different type of epidemic I would be worried about. The numbers aren't increasing but the symptoms are getting more and more severe. (Just a hypothesis)
Is the autism in Denmark more likely to be less severe than in a pollutant/artificial flavoring/ melting pot like the USA, China, or India? I want to see if anyone knows. Americans use far more of certain types of medication than many other first world countries. But does Denmark have higher amounts of people using a certain type of drug as well?


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01 Oct 2016, 12:50 pm

My slant on this is that autism is caused by genetics and high levels of Testosterone in the womb.


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naturalplastic
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01 Oct 2016, 2:20 pm

johnnyh wrote:
I checked Autism rates in some countries (of course it's impossible to even get a close estimate without some mandatory census of the entire population).

I would expect rates to be higher in the USA compared to Denmark, but no. The USA with more pollution, artificial food flavorings, unhealthy food, smoking, and chemicals. Two possibilities come to mind, the estimation is flawed or the genetic homogeneity of Denmark offsets the benefits their healthier lifestyles in the risk of getting autism.

I suppose a lot of our genetic diseases missing from animals come from our inbred nature. Humans are very very homogeneous.

Edit: One thing this estimate didn't do is note how severe the autism is.
Has autism increased? Maybe not.
Has the severity been going up? Possibly, and it could be a different type of epidemic I would be worried about. The numbers aren't increasing but the symptoms are getting more and more severe. (Just a hypothesis)
Is the autism in Denmark more likely to be less severe than in a pollutant/artificial flavoring/ melting pot like the USA, China, or India? I want to see if anyone knows. Americans use far more of certain types of medication than many other first world countries. But does Denmark have higher amounts of people using a certain type of drug as well?


Thats what I would expect you to find: Denmark having a higher rate than the USA. Basically they probably have the same actual rate of actual autism, but more autism gets missed by the medical authorities in the US than in Denmark. Denmarks is smaller (physically, and in population), is more homgeneous, and has socialized medicine, and so forth. America is bigger and has more minorities, and things are more likely to get missed here.



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01 Oct 2016, 2:53 pm

Reported autism rates are unreliable because of diagnostic error. Fragile X Syndrome is misdiagnosed as autism at quite significant rates of misdiagnosis, because some of the symptoms look like autism, and unawareness concerning that differential diagnosis on the part of practitioners. This and other conditions are one factor biasing the incidence data:

Other syndromes that may look a bit like autism, but definitely aren’t autism, include the following (Note: Some of these syndromes may occur with autism or be mistaken for autism; people can have more than one disorder at a time):

Cornelia DeLange Syndrome

Tourette’s Syndrome

Fragile X Syndrome

William’s Syndrome

Down’s Syndrome

Landau-Kleffner Syndrome

Retts?

Angelman's Syndrome?



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01 Oct 2016, 3:06 pm

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01 Oct 2016, 3:23 pm

Kiriae wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I was pretty sick my entire pregnancy. I gained very little weight while pregnant. I also had a lot of emotional stress. Fun times. It's probably a wonder my son was as healthy as he was.

It could be a cue. My mom was dieting during pregnancy because she was afraid of gaining weight and the increasing belly was causing her huge stress. She tells me proudly that she returned to her original weight the next day after giving birth...
I don't know if that caused my Asperger but I was very tall and slim baby(baby with adult proportions, 55cms, 3,2kg, born on time although 2 weeks early) and I am forever underweight (BMI under 18,5) no matter how much I eat.

I weighed 10 pounds less. The weight they thought I had gained turned out to be entirely water weight

I should've complained more about how ill i was. I don't think they took me seriously.



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01 Oct 2016, 4:33 pm

Your parents. Your parents health. Abuse, neglect, and abandonment. Psychologists. Doctors, and modern medicine. Your diet. Your parents diet. Toxins. Lack of important enzymes. Viruses. Fungual infections. Parasites. Gut brain barrier issues. Improper organ functions. Inability of you and your parents to properly fast in order to properly clense yourself, reprogram, and introduce the new (stem cell production). It's not all just in your brain. That's the problem, not the cause.


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01 Oct 2016, 5:56 pm