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Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 1:26 pm

13 I think.



teksla
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01 Dec 2017, 1:35 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
There's nothing supernatural about looking back on childhood memories and mixing up the events of what occurred. Can you say with absolute certainty that you weren't taken there before the age of 4-5? Just because you weren't conscious of it at the time does not mean that it didn't happen. Thinking or hearing about going there later on likely stirred up your subconscious, thus the dream you had.


Also: Childhood memories are not to be trusted as we often remember them incorrectly, in the wrong order or have made them up without realising it.


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01 Dec 2017, 1:39 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
13 I think.


OMG You must be psychic.


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01 Dec 2017, 1:43 pm

Yes, I can say with absolute certainty that I had never been there before that time, never seen a picture of it, never heard their voices. No, I'm not confusing the way I remember it with what actually happened then. I spoke about it when we first got there. I drove everyone crazy talking about it.
So what do you call it?
What if what you think is a delusion is a cultural difference that can't be explained by science?
What if I apply the scientific method to the "delusion", but cannot disprove it?
Doesn't mean that I think I'm psychic, just that there are things I can't explain. And no one else can, either.



Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 2:23 pm

You clearly had some subconscious memory of your grandparents that you simply don't have access to. You can't say with absolute certainty that none of those things happened just because you can't remember it. If you can't explain something it simply means you don't have all of the facts at hand. If you don't have all of the facts you can't draw any solid conclusions. In this case, logic dictates that you have memories that you are unable to recall, which is causing you to believe that something supernatural is occurring when in reality it is a simple misunderstanding.



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01 Dec 2017, 2:25 pm

But your explanation does not consider FACTS, and so it can't be a valid argument.



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01 Dec 2017, 2:26 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
You clearly had some subconscious memory of your grandparents that you simply don't have access to. You can't say with absolute certainty that none of those things happened just because you can't remember it. If you can't explain something it simply means you don't have all of the facts at hand. If you don't have all of the facts you can't draw any solid conclusions. In this case, logic dictates that you have memories that you are unable to recall, which is causing you to believe that something supernatural is occurring when in reality it is a simple misunderstanding.


+1


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Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 2:46 pm

elbowgrease wrote:
But your explanation does not consider FACTS, and so it can't be a valid argument.


Sorry, I meant to say facts and proper use of logic. We reach facts through logical means. It is what allows us to explain what is perceived to be inexplicable. So which side will you take? Beliefs and superstitions, or facts and logic?



Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 3:02 pm

babybird wrote:
Aaron Rhodes wrote:
13 I think.


OMG You must be psychic.


I meant to say -13 because you were holding your fingers down instead of up.

With the joking aside, the real answer was 2 middle fingers directed at me.



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01 Dec 2017, 3:09 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
babybird wrote:
Aaron Rhodes wrote:
13 I think.


OMG You must be psychic.


I meant to say -13 because you were holding your fingers down instead of up.

With the joking aside, the real answer was 2 middle fingers directed at me.


:D


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01 Dec 2017, 3:16 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
elbowgrease wrote:
But your explanation does not consider FACTS, and so it can't be a valid argument.


Sorry, I meant to say facts and proper use of logic. We reach facts through logical means. It is what allows us to explain what is perceived to be inexplicable. So which side will you take? Beliefs and superstitions, or facts and logic?


Fact: I had no knowledge that my grandparents on my father's side lived in Michigan prior to finding out we were going to Michigan to meet them for the first time.
Fact: I had never met them before we got to Michigan.
Fact: I had never been to the state of Michigan before that trip.
Fact: I had no pictures of them or their house before that meeting.
Fact: I had never spoken to them on the phone.
Those are facts. That's the truth. I'm not missing anything there.



Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 3:33 pm

And what exactly are you basing these facts on? Your childhood memories? Or have your parents been feeding you these "facts"? The fact is that you either had some prior knowledge of the situation before it happened or your memories have been scrambled, there's no way around it. You can't remember something that you haven't already seen before. The only other explanation is that you inherited these memories from your parents, but that's about as far fetched as claiming you had a psychic vision.



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01 Dec 2017, 3:40 pm

Where is it you're trying to go here, exactly?



Aaron Rhodes
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01 Dec 2017, 4:09 pm

What I'm getting at is that we reach a logical breakdown at the point when you claim to have had a dream about something you had no prior knowledge of. When this occurs, you should reach the conclusion that at least one of the things you have taken to be a fact must in reality be false. Not understanding this is what allows for the illusion that something inexplicable has occurred.



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01 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm

Right.
But it is, in fact, outside of the realm of logic altogether. That's the point. It was a mystic experience. The facts preceding it are facts. There is no point in arguing them. It is the truth. There's no way I can convince you. And honestly it seems ridiculous to even try. So I'm basically giving up at this point, because I don't really need to argue with a fencepost today.



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01 Dec 2017, 4:25 pm

Aaron Rhodes wrote:
What I'm getting at is that we reach a logical breakdown at the point when you claim to have had a dream about something you had no prior knowledge of. When this occurs, you should reach the conclusion that at least one of the things you have taken to be a fact must in reality be false. Not understanding this is what allows for the illusion that something inexplicable has occurred.

+1


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