Gender dysphroia

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It is a well-established fact that emotions are very unreliable and that people are easily tricked by their own mind.



No disagreement here.



In a perfect world, I would not be socially awkward. In a perfect world, most "neurotypicals" would not be so bloody irrational.

Unfortunately, we live not in a perfect world. In fact, we live in a pretty dysfunctional one!



Have you always had felt like this?

Even as a toddler?

Is there no way this could have been caused by some kind of childhood trauma?



How can you not know?

Most teens struggle with their sexuality and their identity as teens. In fact, that's pretty much what defines puberty.

At what point did you come to the conclusion that your struggle is different from that of other people?

And what make you think that it's your sex that's the main problem?



Several of my closest friends have engaged in self-mutilation at some point in their lives. All of them suffered neglect or abuse during childhood.

I myself contemplated suicide all the time when I was a teen. Heck, I could have been one of those high school shooters if I had had access to a gun when I was a teen.

Life is hard as a teen for everyone... especially if you're Autistic... and even more if you've suffered from abuse or neglect before you reached adulthood.



I'm not saying gender dysphoria is not a real medical disorder.

I'm just saying that there are many approaches towards treating this disorder. And based on my research into the matter (I'm a total INTP), sex changes are unlikely to be the best treatment option and may make things worse in the case of many people.

If it worked out great for you, that's awesome. I'm happy for you. But let's not recommend it to anyone who experiences gender dysphoria, especially to minors. Just because it worked out great for you, that doesn't mean it works out great for everyone with this condition... or even the majority.

Once you remove you're genitals, you can't just paste them back if you change your mind.

Last edited by aspiesavant on 18 Jun 2018, 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

There are times when I wish I knew what a woman feels like....

I can't figure out if I'm dysphoric or not. I'm definitely masculine. I have short hair, and I wear boys' clothes. I get a little sense of satisfaction when people mistake me for a guy. Honestly, if I could make the choice right now to just suddenly be male, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But the idea of transitioning in reality is appalling to me. Maybe because my transition could never be complete, due to some unalterable aspects of my appearance, but I don't feel like changing my body would change how I feel. I think what I experience is different from what transexuals go through, too. In my case, I feel like I should've been born male, not that I am male. So I intend to deal with what dysphoria I have by indulging in my masculinity as far as I please. I won't bind or anything like that because I don't want to choose to reject my body, as I do feel I have a choice in the matter. But I don't try to conform to a feminine standard. It works for me.

Before "transgenderism" became a trend, there have always been tomboys. Tomboys are basically androgynous women who look, think, feel and/or behave like a man but who still identify as female. Tomboys are especially common among Lesbians, but they can be straight as well.

To me, you sound like a typical tomboy.

As a toddler i can't comment as my memory doesn't go back that far. But my first memory of the difference I felt was when i was about 4 when I openly commented to a buy in my infant class that I wanted to be a boy when i grew up. I didn't know what i was saying, i didn't know that it may not have been possible and i dont know what made me say it, but i did. Many feelings developed as I aged towards my teens that i did not understand, including dreaming of being male and waking up feeling sad because I had woken up (around age 7). As a teen I was so concerned about the kind of things I could do to prevent my body maturing like the other girls bodies. Where everyone were showing off their wide hips and new bra's and getting all excited about it, i was digging myself an emotional hole to hide in.



I didn't know. When I was 15 i had a very random thought about having a sex change but i immediately dismissed it because i thought that it was impossible to do so. Again, the same thought at 17. And occurring more frequent, but all i did was dismiss the thoughts. I wasn't well enough educated on transgenderism, i didn't really know what it was. So yeah, i seriously did not know i was transgender despite everything pointing that direction. It wasn't until I had finally had enough of batting back the thoughts and feelings I decided to turn to the internet to see if I could understand better the feelings I had. I then saw that sex changes were possible and free on the NHS that without an inch of doubt knew that was my path.

It was clear that my physical sex was the problem. When i said i dreamt i was a boy in a dream i had when i was 7, i had a penis. The fact i did not have a penis when i woke up felt 'wrong'. And every thought I had, every urge of a sexual nature revolved around the male anatomy. That really does screw with your head when you realise you dont have a male anatomy. Imagine that you were born without arms. And a part of your brain will be tricked into thinking your body has arms, but you don't. So a solution would be to seek out treatment in order to flfil the desire your brain has to gain arms - be it a prosthetic, a transplant or a bionic arm (speaking hyperthetically here, i know its not possible to have limb transplants... yet). But there really is no difference here. A missing limb is a missing limb. At birth you won't understand, but as you grow you do.




I was a depressed teen too. And i didn't know why and I really struggled to be able to communicate to adults how I was feeling and why it was so confusing, thats what made me mutilate myself, for the attention. For someone to turn around and say: "Are you alright?" just that no one ever did.

I understand that you may have experienced some things that no one should ever have to experience. I know how these kind of things can sway a persons way of thinking. Yes, GID takes lives, before and after transition. But I dont believe that a sex change is the cause. I believe the quality of treatment is the main thing to take into consideration here. I'm unsure what part of the world you're in, but here in the UK, the education of the medics in charge of the transitional process is very hit and miss between area's. A part of the treatment here in the UK is extensive psychotherapy and the monitoring of the patients mental health. There are many many factors here that can cause a medical professional to make a judgement in stopping a patients treatment in regards the quality of their mental health. Which, when discussing these things with other GID sufferers, can't seem fair, and I really felt for them. But now that I'm over that bridge myself, I completely understand why they would do that. If someone is not mentally stable, this is what will cause the suicidal issues after transition. I have seen it too, and those people were the ones who weren't screened fully during their transition. Not all service providers will screen proficiently, be it lack of funding, lack of knowledge or whatever.

During my transition I have been part of the transgender community and have spoken to people from all over the world. The majority do choose to transition and the majority of those I had contact with had no regrets and had much happier lives because of it. It has been extremely rare for anyone to go downhill to the point of suicide after transition. And I am absolutely sure that mental health and lack of preparation would have been the main cause of this. Also, lets not forget that many transgenders don't go the full way with surgeries. Some are happy to just be on hormonal therapy, some will be happy with one surgery or the other, not both. That is up to them to decide where their limit is in regards treatment.

Have you also considered that there may be a certain pressure amongst transgendered to go the full way? If someone is very unsure, they may feel persuaded to go for both ops without thinking it through properly.

I'm also concerned about the way the US deals with the transitioning. If someone has the money, is it not easy to just go to a surgeon and have them do the op without first going through extensive therapy? Correct me if i'm wrong there.

If a person truly is transgender on a deep level, the only cure is transition. It may not be fully, but to go the other way to surpress such a strong and complicated 'nature' does not seem right to me at all. Surely that would have a way more adverse affect on ones mental health?

If you want to see true facts, I suggest you join a transgender message board and see for yourself the positive outlook on life most of them have once transitioned. I just simply cannot explain to you how amazing it is to finally be one with your body. Nobody should be denied that. Nobody.

What was it about being a boy that you found more appealing than being a girl?



Insecurity and social awkwardness alone could be a reason feel this uncomfortable in your body and the changes it's experiencing during puberty.



How did you even know what a penis was? Or sex?

Back when I was 7, I was totally clueless about the existence of sex or what female anatomy looked like.



Can you say that ANYONE with GID is really mentally stable pre-transition? Isn't pro-longed depression / unhappiness the very reason you want depression in the first place?



How long was it since they had their transition?

Changes in life this drastic typically start with a period of euphoria. And it can take a while for that euphoria to wear off. It's only at that point that you can seriously assess the success of transition.



According to this swedish study, transgender individuals who have had sex-reassignment surgery are still 19 times more likely to die by suicide than is the general population. That's quite a high rate!



Are you aware of any cases where people are administered hormones corresponding with the sex assigned at birth instead of hormones of the opposite sex? I wonder how the results of both approaches compare.



That's actually my main concern.

"Transgenderism" has become trendy among millennials, and this may encourage many people to make drastic, irreversible changes to their body they don't really need to be happy... and that may even make them more depressed!



Because of the drastic and (at least partially) irreversible nature of biological sex change, it is only reasonable to first tackle the issue with extensive therapy.



Maybe. Or maybe taking female hormones would have made you feel more feminine and in touch with your female body and could have removed the need for a transition.

Again, I'd love to learn about studies on that if there are any.



I guess the closest thing I can relate to this experience in my life, was when I took methylone for the first time... or LSD... any other substance that drastically altered the way I perceived the world around me, how I perceived myself and/or how others perceived me... in a positive way. These substances changed me in a multitude of ways I could never have possibly imagined.

I guess it is those experiences that make me believe that tinkering with your neurochemistry is all it takes to make you feel complete... even with your condition. It's hard to fathom, really, how the abundance or lack of a single substance in your brain can totally alter your perception.

How can gender dysphoria mimic autism?

I never felt anything about my gender. I am just female because that is what I am and was assigned with. I don't understand how people can be confused about gender, just look between your legs and look at your own body unless you are intersex. I am not talking about trans here obviously.

As a kid I was a tomboy and still I didn't feel confused. I played in the mud, played in the sand, climbed trees, played with action figures. I like computers and video games. I am not really into fashion or make up. Still I am not confused about gender. I mostly wear pants and shorts. Only time I ever dress up is for special occasions. I wear dresses when it's hot out or shorts.

My son likes Shopkins and he isn't confused about his gender because of it. He even plays with my old Barbies sometimes and my daughter plays with mega blocks.

I don't get how cis people can be confused about their own gender. f**k gender roles. Who cares what you like, that doesn't define your gender. Are people gatekeeping about gender or what? "I can't be female because I am surgeon. Am I really a female or does this mean I am trans, am I agender?"

This is why trans people have to go through so many hoops before they can get hormone therapy and a sex reassignment surgery. They need to see a therapist first who specializes in this stuff to help them understand why they feel the way they do before they can decide if it's gender dysphoria they are experiencing.

I am guessing this Walt guy here had money so he was able to pay for it out of his own pocket. Most people cannot afford that so they need to go through hoops first before they can make the change.


I am sure not all people who identify as a different gender are actually trans. Not trying to gatekeep anyone here. Chris Chan is someone I am skeptical about who is now Christine Chandler.

What does being a guy feel like?

The reason why trans people are still depressed and why suicide rates are higher among them is because of prejudice and bigotry against them and people still feeling they are the gender they were assigned with. Their families still reject them, disown them because they come from a religious background, they still face discrimination, people still don't see them as the gender they identify with, etc. There is even deaths among them and them being beaten up and the fear trans have to live in, especially when dating.

I'm trans FTM, been on HRT for 2 1/2 years. I have had strong dysphoria most of my life. I call it social dysphoria because my issues were never more than skin deep physically. I have issues with people, imbalanced emotional/ intellectual maturity, and aggression from my childhood. Now I'm very happy and feel in my right place in life. The testosterone has changed my attitude and symptoms to a more masculine presentation which surprised me and took some relearning. For me I think it was a combination of AS and traditional dysphoria that made it hard to relate to females.

It is my impression that the more traditional gender roles are disappearing from our culture and the more kids are raised by single parents, the more people start questioning their gender because they have some stereotypical concept of what it means to be male or female and they fail to relate to that concept. In those cases, I definitely don't think sex changes are good approach. It seems to me that all they're missing is a healthy role model of their birth sex.

And then there's issues like emotional neglect and sexual abuse during childhood. These can f**k up people in a myriad of ways, causing anything from self-mutilation and dissociation to gender dysphoria and nymphomania. The more f****d up people are, the more likely it is they suffered from serious neglect or abuse during childhood. Here, also, I don't think a sex change is the way to go. Extensive therapy is usually the best approach here.

Note that I'm not arguing that a sex change or treatment with hormones of the opposite sex is not a the best solution for anyone. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I merely wonder how many people gender dysphoria could be helped by other - less invasive - means. When I see a trend like the current "transgender" trend, I can't stop but wondering how many of these "transgender" people aren't really "transgender" and could have been perfectly happy with their birth sex in time (with or without neurochemical treatment) if they hadn't been duped by people who are trying to push some socio-political agenda.



How much is this going to improve after a sex change, though? I bet it's much easier for an androgynous man or woman to find a job than it is for a "trans man" or a "trans woman", because "transgenderism" is associated with mental instability. This may or may not be erroneous, but you're not going to change this perception any time soon.

Additionally, androgynous people can be very attractive to men and women alike. I've always been attracted to androgyny in women. Heck, half of my exes were tomboys. But I could never be attracted to a "trans man" or a "trans woman". For me, this is a major turn-off. And I'm sure that this is the case for the vast majority of men and women out there.

And no, you can't force an employer to hire someone. Nor can you force people to be attracted to someone either. No matter how many "anti-discrimination" lawsuits you start against companies reluctant to hire "transgender people" or against individuals reluctant to date a "transgender person", you won't be able to change how people feel. Any such lawsuits is likely to only make people less accepting of "transgender" people.

Finally, there's also the issue of reproduction to consider. Depending on how far you go with your transition, it could limit or destroy your ability to reproduce. And even if you can reproduce normally, any hormone treatment you're undergoing may be harmful to the baby. So this is also worth taking into consideration, even if you may not want to have children at this point in your life.



Give any man testosterone and he'll also feel happier. The effect of testosterone on the mind is actually similar to that of amphetamines. It can make you more aggressive, but most importantly it makes you feel like you're on top of the world! Low testosterone levels are a common cause of depression among men.

I don't know that much about estrogen, but I can't stop but wondering what would have happened if they'd given you estrogen instead of testosterone.

Transgender has always existed. It used to be illegal to live as another gender and we used to just hospitalize them thinking they were crazy. But somehow some have pulled it off well by dressing the opposite gender and living as the other gender without anyone knowing. The first time a sex reassignment surgery occurred was in Denmark in the 1950's.

Scratch that, the first one was done in 1930 in Germany and her name was Lili Elbe and she died from the surgery complications because it was new then. Today, no one dies from it. The person I was thinking of was Christine Jorgensen in Denmark 1952. She was famous so that is why she had noriety about it.


If you were bisexual, I don't think it would matter. Same as if you were pansexual.



I don't see how being trans would affect someone's work performance. If someone can pass as cis, they have privilege. The boss wouldn't need to know they were born male or female.




What if they were infertile or childfree?

And transpeople have had kids before, transwomen have impregnated someone and transmen have been pregnant. I remember pregnant man in the media but they didn't mention in the headline he was a transman. And if someone is done having kids, who cares if they destroy their fertility. Women get their tubes tied or men get sniped, I have a IUD. I am sure a transgender person would gladly keep their male/female working parts if they wanted to have kids than getting a sex reassignment surgery. That is a reason why they might not choose to have the operation. I am also sure they can stop their hormone therapy while they are pregnant if it is harmful for the baby. It would only be a 9 month sacrifice and only temporary. Maybe a trans person can chime in here.

I didn't feel happier so much because of the testosterone. I felt better because it helped me feel less displaced socially (there are different social expectations for men and women). Any 'high' one gets from a hormone fades when you reach homeostasis so it just becomes the norm. I get plenty depressed even still. As a recovered amphetamine addict if say it's not similar at all. Hormones don't work in the brain the same way drugs do.

I already had estrogen. More would have likely exacerbated my unstable emotions as it would have pushed me into abnormalmy high levels. I transitioned at 25, far past puberty.

Maybe it has. But I very much doubt it was even remotely as common as it is today. The same applies to homosexuality.

Many people only start questioning their gender or sexual orientation after they hear of others doing the same.



Pansexuals sure. But they're anything but common.

The issue is different for bisexuals. You see, the problem is that hormone treatment or surgery can never really truly turn a man into a woman or vice versa. You can't just naturally grow a penis or a vagina. Whatever they put between your legs is just an approximation of the genitals of the sex you want to have.

Thus, a "transgender man" is really just a mutilated woman and a "transgender woman" is just a mutilated man. And a consequence thereof is that people who are attracted to men typically aren't attracted to "transgender men" and people who are attracted to women typically aren't attracted to "transgender women"... even if they are bisexual.



If an Autistic person can pass as Neurotypical, their Autism may not affect their capability to find a job. The reality, however, is that most of us can't. Our social clumsiness is a major liability during job interview and prevents many of us from getting even jobs that are perfect for us. The fact that many Autistic people are often a better choice than most Neurotypicals for eg. jobs like engineering tends to allude pretty much everyone, and trying to convince an employer thereof is almost always futile.

In the case of, "transgender" people, it's pretty similar. When many people see someone they recognize as "transgender", they think of mental instability. And even with a perfect resume and the perfect experience, this can turn-off an employer and make him/her choose someone else.

Yes, this shouldn't matter any more than being socially clumsy should matter. But the reality is that for many jobs they are many candidates and most employers like to keep it safe. And they see Autism or "transgenderism" as liabilities.



In case of infertility, that's obviously not an issue.



That's only possible if they've been partially transitioned.

Also, that doesn't mean it's healthy for the baby.



Cause and effect aren't always obvious. In fact, our brain often erroneously associates a cause with an effect that is completely unrelated.



Any high one gets from amphetamines or other stimulants wears off after a while as well.

I used to take stimulants on a daily basis, including both dextro- and levoamphetamine. So this I know from experience.



But much less than before the transition, I assume? Or not?



My late best friend was also a recovering amphetamine addict. And he's also taken testosterone. He thought they felt very similar, except that testosterone felt a lot more natural to him.



Now that's interesting.

What effect did that have on you emotionally and mentally, if any at all?