The Social RULES Do NOT Apply to Us

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I agree.
It is important to embrace all NT social protocols, good and bad. <facetiousness>
I particularly like the propensity that NTs have in disrespecting the truth and actively encourage/teach their offspring to lie. <sarcasm>
And how NT society protects emotions over intellectual integrity, my lordly, how virtuous. <vitriolic sarcams>

Yep, we are in total agreement.

I'm the OP and I never said it wasn't important. I was saying we're below, we're second-class. Bound to their rules, obviously no choice in that and no way around it. The rules they have for each other vs. the rules they have for dealing with us.

In some ways, I'm asking Aspies to at least be a bit more theoretical in mind and at least see the NT perceptive and its hypocrisy and our place within it and be honest about it. Instead (and I guess I shouldn't be shocked) most people here replied about themselves and what they (as Aspies) think social rules mean and why it's important for them (as Aspies) to follow them. Mark missed. Big time.

rules phuqing suck, phuq the phuqing rules to phuqing hell. i live out in the sticks to get away from NTs and their silly@$$ed sucky silly GD nonsensical rules.

I am confused. Are you talking about behavior versus rules, belief systems versus hypocrisy or something different?

Rules I understand, behavior not so much.
Belief systems I understand a bit, hypocrisy not at all.

Figuring out a persons motivation and objective is useful when trying to interact with them, regardless of their neurological status. People act with bad intentions to get what they want. A grand unify principle is beyond my abilities. I try to keep it simple.

I am in the middle of a family dilemma, one that keeps recurring. Each of the parties have competing objectives and motivations. As a result, I find myself getting stepped on for no good reason. It sucks and for the life on me I cannot find a good way to extricate myself.

My honest opinion is that most NTs don't think about us one way or another. They're mostly oblivious to us having a different nuerological setup and are applying the same criteria to dealing with us that they do to everyone else. For example in most western countries eye contact is a sign of trust. An NT meets someone who isn't making eye contact they have no idea if that person is autistic or not, they just treat them as a person not making eye contact.

You are a human being and have your own objectives as well. Yet, notice you're the one getting stepped on more so than the others?

You're keeping it too simple, there is indeed an unspoken rule, a "unifying principle" at work among the others. While they're in competition with each other, they all know what you are. Oh, they may have no knowledge of different neurotypes, etc. That's not the point. They know where you stand in the social structure, they know what rules apply and don't apply to you. They know what they can get away with in regards to you, but can't do to each other.

The fact that you can't find a "good way" to extricate yourself doesn't surprise me at all. You're agreeing with my premise without realizing it. That's why you're so confused, you can't understand what I'm saying even though it's right there before your eyes.

Yes, in this matter, with all these competing parties, there are still social "rules" or social "laws." They all know where they stand with each other, and they all know you're second class. You're problem is you're oblivious to these rules and don't know why you're in the position you're in. Re-read my post keeping your situation in mind. It might at least help you understand your situation better.

You're quite right. They don't know/care about neurotype. What they do know is they've found someone who doesn't "get" the rules, meaning they know what tier you belong in and will treat you accordingly. It's understood among them when someone doesn't get it, they're placed into a different category. We're in that category. The regular social rules they employ with each other are not extended to us.

My friend, you speak with the passion of one who is in pain. I understand. I have been there myself.

My parents, long gone, were mental health professionals. I grew up hearing all the horror stories of dysfunction at the dinner table. The things people do to each other, all over the world, violate every norm with abandon.

Compared to many, my problems are minor, a grain of sand on the beach. Yet, I do struggle with them. Since we all want to find some peace and happiness. And when those times are found, I hold them with both arms and squeeze.

You may understand humanity better than me. That would not be difficult. But please, try not to make assumption about me. You do not know me and I do not know you. I hope you have the answers and can use them to have a rewarding life.

A good way to extricate myself would require my brother to drop his jealousy, my cousin to be less hostile and my aunt to be more thoughtful. They are old and will not change. I can smack them down, encourage them, negotiate with them, play to their egos, .... But, I am sick and tired of their crap and would prefer to walk away. So like all good humans, I pick my battles, tolerate the crap and keep my head covered.

Yes majority does rule and they say what's normal.and what's not. What if majority were AT instead of NT? Would this website exist?

This would be a lot more compelling if you provided some specifics.

Probably, just in an inverted format. You could read about people who forfeited job interviews because they just couldn't help looking at the interviewer's eyes. Or children at school being bullied for annoying people by being so darn conversational & "engaging".

I'll answer that statement with a series of questions:

Would you like to be able to not have to think so hard when interacting with "normal" people? Would you like to feel free to be yourself without worrying if you're upsetting other people? Would you like not having to constantly wonder whether other people hate you or not?

This is someone else's wishlist I'm rephrasing as a question. This is not how most NTs think or experience life. And when they encounter folks who mean well but don't quite get it, it's okay for the normal rules for engaging with normal people to go out the window when interacting with folks like us. We're below "the law."

If you consider yourself intelligent, you're probably cognizant of the fact that you're already in this second-class zone. It's not all in you're head. You really are treated differently. It's not just on your end. There is a punishment for not being up to code. Friendliness and civility, some of these social rules, are indeed practiced by many, but swiftly revoked when a second-tier citizen enters the scene. We're not counted as fully human, the rules don't apply, we're below the law.

I'm actually not even bitter. Well, a little bitter, but I'm really just wanting to be honest and stop tiptoeing. I read to much tiptoeing or obliviousness here. Some of you reading understand what I'm saying, some of you (sadly) will one day. If not, if you feel it's all jibber-jabber on my end, then I'm glad for you. And if you can't read between my lines, I won't spell it out anymore. You either get it and acknowledge it, get it and play wish-away, or don't get it at all (and maybe ignorance and obliviousness is bliss for that third group).

I don't agree. I find myself not being second class but kind of outside of the hierarchy. It's just my choice wether I treat this as being below all others or above. If it comes to men then I'm rather on top because they treat honesty and self-confidence as being much more important than empathy. It's a stoneage thing. Men had to learn to trust each other because it has always been a question of life and dead. That's why you have to shake hands and look into the eyes. If I'm doing this I get their mood an how they are towards me. But if you are doing it the right way then it's even a contract of trusting each other and standing together. I don't even know why I know this. But if it comes to women then they totally count on your empathy. But I'm lacking the feeling of empathy. For this women are quite a problem to me.

For this you should learn to make eye contact and to read people emotional and make some friends. Of course it depends where on the spectrum you are whether it helps you.

Of course I would, but it's not reasonable to ask the entire world to think hard when interacting with me instead of me thinking hard when interacting with the rest of the world. I may be different, but I don't want to be treated differently, and people shouldn't have to tiptoe around me.



Suit yourself, but it's hard to respond when you don't actually explain what the hell you're talking about. I can summon up about a dozen scenarios that are causing you to feel this way, but I don't want to assume any of them without knowing which is applicable.

Perfect!

Yes! The unfairness rankles. It reminds me somewhat of how minoritized languages are denigrated, sometimes in the very lands where the minoritized language has a long history of being spoken first and the majoritized tongue is the latecomer. I use the term "minoritized" because being minoritized was something that was *done* to the language by those who do not wish to respect or to speak it, who indeed sometimes actively wish to eradicate the language forever. I see parallels with how Autistics are treated and subjected to outsiders' definitions and arbitrary rules, rules which advance a certain agenda and which--sometimes very subtly, sometimes not--deny anything else space or existence. Not laws, though,as you specified... law is ideally another matter entirely.