Aphantasia

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naturalplastic
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23 Feb 2020, 4:43 am

kokopelli wrote:

Much of my life, I've heard of references to "undressing a woman with your eyes".

Obviously, with aphantasia, I can't actually visualize a woman in my mind as if she has no clothes. I've often wondered about the phrase because I've never visualized a clothed woman as if she had no clothes on. Is that what the phrase means or does it mean something else?

Similarly, I've heard people say that if you get nervous giving a talk in public, then you should visualize the audience as being nude and that will make it somewhat funny to you can you can proceed with much less nervousness.

Yes. To the first thing. Most heterosexual men do indulge in "undressing women with their eyes" in exactly that way: visualize ladies (celebs in pics, or ordinary ladies around them) unclothed ...from time to time. That's exactly what the phrase means.

AND yes I have also heard that advice given about public speaking. If the hundred folks in the audience are all naked, and you're not, then they supposedly are more "exposed" and have more reason to be embarrassed than you do. So it supposed to help you relax and speak better.

auntblabby
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23 Feb 2020, 5:37 am

my imaginatory vision is sub-VHS resolution at best. i see basically outlines with minimal fill. i need to make detailed lists in order to navigate my life, i can't seem to do it just by my head in real time, planning is required. i wonder if this is related to having a less-than-optimally functioning facial recognition module in my brain?

firemonkey
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23 Feb 2020, 6:55 am

https://www.syntoolkit.org/studies/fina ... se-3/start Online study about aphantasia that includes an AQ section . Trying to see how much of an aphantasia- ASD connection there is ?

auntblabby
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23 Feb 2020, 7:21 am

i also could not be hypnotised, esp. when they told me to "visualize being on a beach with the sun on your skin and the wind in your hair." i saw just blackness. i have learned to intellectualize those feelings, but still they are only abstract. the only clue i have as to what it must be like to truly visualize is from my dreams. but i almost never see faces up close in my dreams, just objects.

firemonkey
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23 Feb 2020, 7:31 am

I always knew I couldn't visualise , but thought that was the same for everyone .
In 2005 I did a guided imagery relaxation class to help with anxiety/relaxation. I experienced nothing . Then the penny dropped . If no one could visualise , then how come guided imagery had been around for a good number of years? I had to be the odd one out .

auntblabby
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23 Feb 2020, 7:35 am

i guess many of us must live on the island of defective santas along with me. but strange thing i can't really see you there.

naturalplastic
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23 Feb 2020, 9:25 am

Its one of those things that Ms. Joe90 complains about. How contradictory things are said to be "symptoms of autism".

We autistics are supposed to be either "lost in imagination in our heads", or all "have aphantasia".One extreme or the other.

And the funny thing is that both things seemed to be born out by folks on Wrongplanet.

I have seen engineers on this site who claim that the can visualize machines in 3D, and a chemist who can visualize new molecules in 3D.

I am good at 2D. Three D is a bit over my head. But I am good at doing art, and am a geography geek. I can visualize in my head any country you name, and then rattle off all of the ancient empires that conquered that country, and made it a province of their empire in the last five thousand years (just by visualizing the ebb of flow of the colors on the map in my head). And folks find that amazing.

But then you see these folks on WP who claim that they cant visualize anything. Go figure.

firemonkey
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23 Feb 2020, 10:19 am

I guess it shows how complex autism is .

As for geography - I regularly mix up where Norway and Sweden are .

naturalplastic
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23 Feb 2020, 11:13 am

firemonkey wrote:

I guess it shows how complex autism is .

As for geography - I regularly mix up where Norway and Sweden are .

That's not bad. At least you don't confuse Sweden with Switzerland, or Austria with Australia! :lol:

kokopelli
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23 Feb 2020, 2:38 pm

auntblabby wrote:

I tend to think about things in a more abstract manner than most people.

For example, consider George Zimmerman's killing of Trayvon Martin. Many people clearly visualize each of them in a confrontation. On the other hand, I look at it as one person chasing another through a neighborhood without visualizing either of them. For me it is more theoretical while for many it is very specific to the two of them.

kokopelli
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23 Feb 2020, 2:40 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i guess many of us must live on the island of defective santas along with me. but strange thing i can't really see you there.

As I posted elsewhere, "Imagine a sign that says 'Leave Nothing to the Imagination'".

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23 Feb 2020, 3:05 pm

I can only see brief flashes of any visual imagery. I'll be able to tell you in words what something looks like, with considerable detail, but I can't hold the image longer than a few seconds. My thoughts are more like a book than a film.

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IsabellaLinton
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23 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm

kokopelli wrote:

Just out of curiosity, for others with aphantasia, do you enjoy vacations and travel?

I'm completely blah on vacations and travel. Part of it is that I tend to get anxious when I go anywhere, even to another nearby town, and can't wait until I go home again. The only times I've been 200 miles from home in nearly two decades was for medical reasons.

I used to be able to travel without anxiety and I did enjoy the trip. But when I got back, I could remember the trip but to me it wasn't any more real that if I had read about it in a book or magazine article. Essentially, to me, any travel I did in the past is very flat.

For example, I can remember riding the Alaskan inland ferry, the Malaspina, from Bellingham, Washington to Skagway, Alaska and then hiking the Chilcoot Trail to Lake Bennett in British Columbia, but my memories of the trip are no more than what can be written as paragraphs in a book. That was in 1977 -- when we got to Ketchikan, Alaska, the newspaper headlines were about Elvis's death -- he was still alive when we got on the boat.

In other words, I don't really retain much in the way of memories of what it was like on the trip.

Do others have the same issues? When you go on a vacation, how well can you remember the feeling of what you experienced in the vacation?

I relate to this completely. When I reflect on travel I've done in the past I have a few snapshot type memories that flash for a second or two, but nothing is sustained or episodic. I will remember what I was thinking about, or what emotion I had, but not the actual events .. and certainly not in a filmstrip type of way. For example I went to DisneyWorld when I was young. I remember that I had the song Please Mr Postman stuck in my head. I remember my mood (horribly miserable) and the texture -- even the scent -- of my outfit. I even remember the smell of the weather. Do I remember what anything looked like? Nope. Do I feel like I was actually there? Nope. I may as well have had a "DIsney" backdrop behind me, as I sat at home with my regular thoughts. I went back as an adult and again, all I remember is my thoughts which had nothing to do with the location.

You know on The Flintstones when the characters stand there and the background just keeps scrolling past on repeat? That's how my life is. I'm always "here" in my head and the background changes -- but I don't pay attention to it.

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23 Feb 2020, 3:35 pm

I read about this over the holidays and did a test for several weeks with a family photo on my phone. I looked at the pic every time I turned my phone on. Can I see something or does my inner monologue make it seem like I can see? I get a flash of red, know where everyone is etc but it is definitely not an image that I can see. More like a mishmash of details that I can use logic to recreate it.

Does this make sense to anyone? Do I have it? I don't know, maybe I'm too literal. (confused as always)

IsabellaLinton
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23 Feb 2020, 3:40 pm

Yes, I'd describe my antaphasia in much the same way. I can tell you what a photo looks like and see general blocks or swirls of the colour palette, but I'm not able to see it. Maybe for a second or two, as quickly as a déjà vu. Likewise I can't picture people very well although I can describe them. I can't picture my boyfriend's face at all and I'm always worried I won't recognise him if I meet him outdoors.

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23 Feb 2020, 3:47 pm

And the vacation comment - spending money on a trip is a total waste for me. I see some amazing thing and a few seconds later it's ho-hum. I can have just as much fun (or more) on a day trip or by just going on a walk. Vacation time yes, but going on a vacation for the experience is a no. Rather google it. I do enjoy traveling home every couple of years to see family for a week.

I need sensory data in order to form a fun memory. A lively conversation, feeling the wind, hearing birds, I'm a cheap date haha.

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