Should governments criminalise shaming of singles/virgins?

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Fnord
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27 Dec 2019, 12:06 pm

Joe90 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You can’t tell a virgin based on "body language".
I know, but according to the OP it's something NT women in his area can do.
It would be easier to discern by body language when someone lacks confidence and/or acts like a creep.



Fern
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27 Dec 2019, 12:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
Leon_Trotsky wrote:
Should governments criminalize shaming of singles/virgins?
NO!  Proponents claim political correctness is about politeness, and many may actually believe this.  However the ultimate goal is to restrict 'wrong' thought -- as one of the left’s most viable and useful weapons -- because it forces people through peer pressure to accept what Socialists see as "truth". 


:lol: Oh come on now Fnord. Not everything you disagree with is a liberal conspiracy. I'm pretty far left of center and I actually 100% agree with you on this. Criminalizing shaming is a really bad idea. Citizens need to have the freedom to speak negatively without consequence, or we end up in one of those societies where you can go to jail for opposing the sitting ruler.

Does it suck that in a society where the right to free speech is protected that some people will be jerks and say nasty things? Yes it does. -but I think the most effective ways to reduce the incidence of this kind of thing might be to work as a group to increase awareness and understanding for one another, not to change our laws. After all, if you sent someone to jail for being rude to you, I doubt they'd like you very much when they got out anyway. -and that's what seems to be at the heart of the OP's problem here, I think. His main concern seems to be that other guys and women don't like him, that they unfairly look down on him for being a virgin in his 30's. Unfortunately this can't be changed with a law. We can't force people to like us by law. Feelings just don't work that way.



Dear_one
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27 Dec 2019, 12:45 pm

Losing one's virginity is a tricky goal, and a major milestone to achieve. However, the sentiment against older virgins is not primarily over the "achievement unlocked" aspect as over the matter of experience. Virgins are amatuers, and while they almost certainly need teaching, they may not be able to even accept suggestions. I like Billy Connolly's assessment of a heavenly reward of 54 virgins - he'd much rather have two fire-breathing whores. Male virgins tend to be unable to contain their excitement long enough for a partner to finish, but solo practice certainly can help.

In general, teasing works to maintain group cohesiveness, so I can't imagine it should be banned for the sake of those who can't conform, but try to join.



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 2:40 pm

I was thinking of the system of anti-bullying laws that the UK already have in place. I think that this is quite different from, for example, Pinochet's Chile or Kim's North Korea.



Dear_one
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27 Dec 2019, 2:51 pm

I'm with Steve Hughes on the UK's nanny state: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo
Your family and friends should try to consider your feelings, but elsewhere we can't get picky, and should not try.



kraftiekortie
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27 Dec 2019, 3:15 pm

Don't be a pawn in their game.....

So what if you're a virgin!



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27 Dec 2019, 3:32 pm

Sorry, but I don't believe for one minute that anyone is shaming you about your virginity.

Maybe this may have happened when you were a teenager in middle school. But I find it very difficult to believe that adults are doing this. The Bay Area may be a bit more liberal, but it's not THAT different.

What you perceive as people being nosy is more than likely them trying to reach out to get to know you, and you don't know how to respond or you get defensive, and people then avoid you.

You've already indicated in a previous post that you have a lot of social difficulty. From your post:

***Often when offered a handshake, my hands simply stay at my sides and I give the person a blank look, i.e. blank facial expression. Often this angers or irritates people, and they make comments about me for it.

-Although I am not mutistic (at least not chronically), if someone asks me a simple question like, "What do you do for fun to relax?", I would look at them with a blank facial expression and just say nothing, or stutter with gibberish sounds like "eh", "uh", "oy", etc. Then after around five seconds I would answer, but I would answer stuff like, "Watching war movies like Platoon (1986) or Casualties of War (1989)." Then they would look at me as if they had a "wtf?" facial expression.

-I often am a bit worried about coming into contact with other people's germs. Sometimes I put the lower part of my face inside the upper part of my shirt when in a group of people. If I have to drink beer from the bottle of wine from the glass, often I tilt it so that the liquid enters my mouth, without my mouth actually touching the bottle or the glass. I often get weird looks for this.

-For some reason sometimes my balance is off, plus I am very clumsy; I accidentally tilt my torso backwards or forwards almost to the point of falling down.

-I absolutely need to eat finger foods with a fork or spoon. Thus, you often see me eating popcorn, chips, crisps, chicken wings, etc. with a fork or spoon.

-Since I have no natural instinct or notion of flirting, either I say nothing or say something idiotic. For example, either I tell a woman nor give hints that I like her, or I just blurt out straight, "I like you".

-I usually have had no body language or hand motions whilst talking. Lately I tried talking with my hands. However, my hand motions are often disjointed, causing me to accidentally knock glasses of wine and beer down without noticing.****

All of those things are going to put people off. They're going to notice all of this.

Has it never occurred to you that because of your autism you MAY be misinterpreting the intentions of other people?


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Fnord
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27 Dec 2019, 4:03 pm

Fern wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Leon_Trotsky wrote:
Should governments criminalize shaming of singles/virgins?
NO!  Proponents claim political correctness is about politeness, and many may actually believe this.  However the ultimate goal is to restrict 'wrong' thought -- as one of the left’s most viable and useful weapons -- because it forces people through peer pressure to accept what Socialists see as "truth".
Oh come on now Fnord.  Not everything you disagree with is a liberal conspiracy.
True, but in this case, "Political Correctness" is largely driven by "Progressive" ideologies, which are rarely (if ever) held by those on the political Right.
Fern wrote:
I'm pretty far left of center and I actually 100% agree with you on this.  Criminalizing shaming is a really bad idea.  Citizens need to have the freedom to speak negatively without consequence, or we end up in one of those societies where you can go to jail for opposing the sitting ruler.  Does it suck that in a society where the right to free speech is protected that some people will be jerks and say nasty things?  Yes it does.  But I think the most effective ways to reduce the incidence of this kind of thing might be to work as a group to increase awareness and understanding for one another, not to change our laws.  After all, if you sent someone to jail for being rude to you, I doubt they'd like you very much when they got out anyway.  And that's what seems to be at the heart of the OP's problem here, I think.  His main concern seems to be that other guys and women don't like him, that they unfairly look down on him for being a virgin in his 30's.  Unfortunately this can't be changed with a law.  We can't force people to like us by law.  Feelings just don't work that way.
At the risk of offending feminists (and incurring another warning from the mods), I can remember a time when single men could compliment women, ask for dates, and then later maybe suggest more intimate activities without fear of losing their jobs or even facing jail time. Those days are essentially gone.

Nowadays, a married man can be dismissed from his job, get divorced and lose all credibility just because he said "Good Morning" to the receptionist at work every day and complimented her on her appearance without meaning anything other than extending a friendly greeting.

THAT is what Progressives and their Political Correctness have done to society -- they have made every workplace a potential conflict zone between men who just want to be friendly (and nothing more) and women who see a pervert behind every male smile.

Yes, there are men who could not care less about propriety and respect for women, but not all of us are that way, yet we all have to suffer under the same implied threats of unemployment, divorce, and ruined reputations if we slip up even once and let our eyes drop from her face to her chest (for example) for even an instant.

I'm glad I'll soon retire.



Rainbow_Belle
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27 Dec 2019, 4:52 pm

The negative jerk haters with their bad attitudes will continue to hate and keep you down. No amount of trying to improve will change anything in your toxic environment. You must escape this hostile environment and embrace freedom! Leave these losers behind and move on with your life and embrace freedom! Fight for freedom!



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27 Dec 2019, 4:54 pm

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
The negative jerk haters with their bad attitudes will continue to hate and keep you down. No amount of trying to improve will change anything in your toxic environment. You must escape this hostile environment and embrace freedom! Leave these losers behind and move on with your life and embrace freedom! Fight for freedom!


Unless the OP believes that he encounters this sort wherever he goes.



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 5:05 pm

Luhluhluh wrote:

Maybe this may have happened when you were a teenager in middle school. But I find it very difficult to believe that adults are doing this. The Bay Area may be a bit more liberal, but it's not THAT different.


Discussing this does not make much sense if you are essentially saying that I made all of this up in my head.

This has happened to me multiple times, and I am not the only one. I have two acquaintances who are both male virgins at 34 and 36, and both have been shunned in social circles, by both males and females. Women often discount them as undateable material when they find out about their virginity/singleness, similar to my case. Like me, they are both born and bred San Francisco natives. And both of them are even neurotypicals, so less awkward than I am.

It is a bit strange about people who never grew up or lived a long time in the Bay Area commenting about how such and such never happens/happened.



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 5:07 pm

For those who consider my posts to be annoying or useless, why not just block me? Then you do not have to see anything that I write. Surely it cannot be that difficult?



Fnord
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27 Dec 2019, 5:08 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
... Women often discount them as undateable material when they find out about their virginity/singleness...
How do women find out?  Who tells them, and why?



Fnord
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27 Dec 2019, 5:09 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
For those who consider my posts to be annoying or useless, why not just block me? Then you do not have to see anything that I write. Surely it cannot be that difficult?
Is that what you want?  MORE people ignoring you?  Maybe it's not your virginity that drives people away...



Luhluhluh
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27 Dec 2019, 5:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
Leon_Trotsky wrote:
... Women often discount them as undateable material when they find out about their virginity/singleness...
How do women find out?  Who tells them, and why?


Maybe it's not their virginity that makes them "undateable." Maybe it's something ELSE about them that has made women consider them "undateable" and consequently virgins.

General rule of thumb: If you act weird and are generally unfriendly, that's going to be a turn off. And not just to women. To everyone.


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Dear_one
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27 Dec 2019, 5:47 pm

I knew of a 40 yr old virgin who met a kind woman willing to be his first lover, in the spirit of sex therapy. He became so attached to her that he almost ruined her life.
I have also been able to detect virginity in a mixed classroom when a certain topic came up, even without a naive gaffe.