What even is autism?

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Jiheisho
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15 Nov 2020, 5:46 pm

Double Retired wrote:

OkaySometimes wrote:

I think the issue that gets missed by the "difference not disability" argument is that, while it is just a "difference", it can make a person less able to do the things they want or need to do. At that point, "difference" becomes "disability." A person who is paralyzed just has a "neurological difference" until they come to a building with stairs but no ramp.

Is the "wrong" skin color a disability? Lefthandedness? Being unusually tall or short? Aversion to cilantro? All can interfere with doing things you want or need to.

Obviously some people are disabled by autism. But in the version of autism I got and at the level of severity where I live I think calling it a "disability" is an overstatement. It would be presumptuous of me to expect to be treated as if I was disabled--it would be helpful to be treated as me. I am "impaired" at always behaving like an NT, but they would be impaired at behaving like me--we are different from each other. It appears to me I am considered "impaired" because there are a lot more of them and might makes right so I must be "wrong".

And that is a dangerous argument because it leads to this argument: Why should they have to accept your behavior? Why do you need special treatment? If you understand the social aspects, then simply adhere to them and stop being difficult. After all, you don't have a disability, you should be able to be a team player and understand the feelings of others. NTs are different, some are extraverted and other introverted, but they can get along and adapt to each other. Where does your entitlement come from?

See the problem of the difference, not disability argument.

But you do need accommodation (at least that is what you state). Just as someone in a wheelchair needs accommodation (and providing wheelchair ramps accommodates the disability, but does not eliminate it). Your argument is just because autism is not visible to others, it should not be considered a disability. Yet, you demand that people recognize and accommodate your autism.

But if you have no problems in functioning, I don't understand how you got an ASD diagnosis? The DSM-5 is clear that it must be impacting something in your life. I received my diagnosis because of real implications from ASD in my life. Sure, I am very lucky compared to others. I get the "you don't look autistic" line from time to time and people have even denied I have autism as well. Well, my meltdowns and shutdowns are real. So are my social communication problems, anxiety, and depression. Sure, I am different, but my difference is at the root of those negative impacts.

I am glad that autism for you is like being left-handed. I am sure the difference not disability argument makes sense for you. But people don't get diagnosed with ASD simply out of curiosity.

Double Retired
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15 Nov 2020, 6:44 pm

The aspects of my life that were impacted were primarily my ability to be perceived as an NT. I didn't act and react the same way NTs are expected to. That lead to people being "unkind" to me because I was different. It made things unpleasant but other than the way people treated me the ways I did things generally worked fine--they were just different.

And, oddly enough, it was curiosity that caused me to seek the assessment. My still-living, then 88 year-old Dad had an opportunity to observe a youngster and said the kid was doing the same "weird" things I used to do--about 60 years earlier. The kid was thought to be autistic and that was the hint that lead me to get an assessment.

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Clueless2017
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15 Nov 2020, 7:06 pm

Joe90 wrote:

I often get confused about who I am. All of my Aspie traits are very non-stereotypical and also very complex. I know you don't have to have all the stereotypes just to be autistic but it still makes me feel less Aspie than other Aspies.

I read somewhere that it is common for Aspies to lack autobiographical memory and instead are better at memorizing facts. I can memorize some facts to a certain extent just like most people, but memorizing facts has never been a strength of mine and is the main reason I failed some of my exams at school, especially in the classes where you needed to memorize facts (such as geography, history, science, maths and technology). But I have an excellent autobiographical memory, so good that I could write an autobiography of my life from 3 years onwards, and not just the events that happened but also the emotion, mood, atmosphere, of the particular time, if that makes sense. And I read in the same place that Aspies that do have an autobiographical memory have trouble remembering the emotional side of their memories. But I don't.

There are other things as well that make me question my diagnosis, like how social interaction interests me more than facts, how good I am at working as a team in the workplace, how natural it felt when I first met my (NT) boyfriend, and how good I am at imagining myself in other people's shoes. My theory of mind skills go deeper than I can explain to people here, and I don't seem to have any difficulties with being in a relationship with an NT guy. It just feels rather natural to me.

But I am most certainly not an NT. I've probably just got that broad female autism phenotype or whatever it's called, where my Aspie traits are not at all black and white. In fact all of my Aspie traits are very grey.

... ... ...
Interesting...My beloved (Aspie) husband has an extraordinary autobiographical memory... :heart:

Double Retired
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16 Nov 2020, 10:17 am

Clueless2017 wrote:

Interesting...My beloved (Aspie) husband has an extraordinary autobiographical memory...

Does he have an extraordinary memory for most things, or is autobiographical information an exception?

I have a terrible autobiographical memory...at about the level of a few bullet-item lists in a few PowerPoint presentation slides. Very little memory of sensory sensations (including visual), just a few colorless facts about my past. :silent:

As a result I live very much in the present. Fortunately I retained a lot of records--which was useful for my assessment (the psychologist's report included "...he presented the the examiner with copious amounts of documentation and records, to include a detailed index").

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Clueless2017
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16 Nov 2020, 11:19 am

Double Retired wrote:

Clueless2017 wrote:

Interesting...My beloved (Aspie) husband has an extraordinary autobiographical memory...

... ... ...
I would have to ask him, specifically...It is also true that he possibly has lost some information due to shutdowns and seizures he has experienced in the past...But for the most part, i get the impression that he has an extraordinary memory in general...At least in comparison to mine, which is either typical or below average--like a mosaic or fragments of information...Have a blessed week... :wink:

Joe90
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16 Nov 2020, 12:03 pm

I can remember things from my past better than I can memorize facts. It is why I dwell on my past so much and it's so hard to move on, because of my extraordinary autobiographical memory.
I'm using this to try and write stories about my past.

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Clueless2017
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16 Nov 2020, 1:05 pm

Joe90 wrote:

... ... ...
This sounds so-o-o much like my husband...With me, i think he began the healing process...Not that i am a healer...I only gave him my unconditional love...Interestingly, i read somewhere that the unconditional love of one person is all that is needed to develop RESILIENCE...My husband is a good example of RESILIENCE...I admire him deeply for this...I wish i was as STRONG as he is...Have a blessed week... :heart:

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16 Nov 2020, 2:49 pm

The way I see it, autism affects the person socially in some sort of way. Some autistics are more socially skilled than others. Usually social skills and social performance depends on levels of severity, but I think there's more to be studied on that one so don't take my word for it and get all hyped up about it.

Other than the social deficits, the 5 core symptoms (non-social-related) of autism usually involve:

Need for routine/predictability
Can have meltdowns/shutdowns
Sensory issues
Special interests or prone to obsessions
Repetitive behaviours or 'stimming'

Autism can involve alternative thinking patterns, like overthinking, worrying and stressing, rigid thinking, logical thinking and can affect memory function (not necessarily in a bad way).

Obviously not everyone on the spectrum has all of the symptoms listed. And it's inaccurate to say that everyone with autism are socially clueless. Socially awkward describes me more than socially clueless.

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Alexanderplatz
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17 Nov 2020, 12:28 am

AFAIK, Autism is a list of symptoms, with three only needed for the dx. Otherwise, as discussed on here long ago, there are over twenty other traits / characteristics.

To the best of my knowledge, multiple things can be the cause of autism symptoms.

The ideas of Coojimans interest and influence me, which I guess is not fashionable due to his forensically realistic approach, and ditto my impression is that the papers of asperger do not get read so much these days.

My case has at least one more invisible disability involved.

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17 Nov 2020, 12:36 am

"When I describe 'symptoms' or characteristics of autism on here, unless it's a sensory thing I'm told 'that's not part of being autistic'. For eg, being a pedant or a social recluse or not 'missing' people or having specialist interests."

To the best of my knowledge having specialist interests is bang on an autistic thing. For me, being pedantic and a social recluse also.

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17 Nov 2020, 1:17 am

all i know is that i never fit in anywhere, a total outlier.

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18 Nov 2020, 1:34 pm

Alexanderplatz wrote:

". For eg, being a pedant or a social recluse or not 'missing' people or having specialist interests."

To the best of my knowledge having specialist interests is bang on an autistic thing. For me, being pedantic and a social recluse also.

These are all very Autistic traits.

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18 Nov 2020, 1:34 pm

My autobiographical memory is excellent

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skibum
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18 Nov 2020, 1:34 pm

auntblabby wrote:

all i know is that i never fit in anywhere, a total outlier.

You fit in here with us. :heart:

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auntblabby
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19 Nov 2020, 4:44 am

skibum wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

all i know is that i never fit in anywhere, a total outlier.

You fit in here with us. :heart:

Clueless2017
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19 Nov 2020, 12:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:

skibum wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

all i know is that i never fit in anywhere, a total outlier.

You fit in here with us. :heart:

With ME, non-autistic, also...Sending you a virtual hug... :wink:

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