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Joe90
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05 Jun 2022, 10:59 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
You missed out "some". Here you have to write "some" before any group of people otherwise folks here freak out and think you mean all when you don't, then you have to elaborate.

Oops, I meant some folks here freak out. Phew, I nearly made the same mistake you did!


Actually, most people, autistic or not, would take that to mean ALL NTs. It’s not unique to here or to the neurodiverse.

It’s best to be clear or else you run the risk of being misunderstood and people will think that you are stereotyping/overgeneralizing - which is a common, human tendency.


In my experience NTs seem to understand that when you say something like "I hate people" it doesn't mean you hate every human on the planet, it just means you hate people in general, like the general public.

I have a good one - many Aspies here seem to have to have empathy for everybody in the world, while most NTs I know have selective empathy, and I'm trying to train myself to have selective empathy too.
Like if there's a (possibly minor) car accident on a road where accidents often happen and it's holding up the traffic, an Aspie driver will most likely think "I'm going to be late for work but I'll rather be me than those poor people involved in the accident, hope they'll be OK" - even if the Aspie is feeling intense anxiety about being late for work. But an NT driver might think "f**k sake, not again, I'm gonna be late for work! Again!" - even if they're not exactly feeling anxious about being late for work, they're just fed up with the frequency of accidents and hold-ups that occur on the same road.
Of course NTs might feel shocked as they drive past the accident and discover it's serious and there are people dead or severely hurt or the cars have caught fire or something.


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MaxE
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05 Jun 2022, 1:00 pm

I think I can safely say that the average NT basically forms their opinions based on what their friends think, whereas autistics don't. I suppose the downside is that an autistic person will choose which set of facts to consider when forming an opinion, and by doing so in a vacuum they can arrive at equally irrational conclusions (when compared to NTs).


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05 Jun 2022, 1:07 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Like if there's a (possibly minor) car accident on a road where accidents often happen and it's holding up the traffic, an Aspie driver will most likely think "I'm going to be late for work but I'll rather be me than those poor people involved in the accident, hope they'll be OK" - even if the Aspie is feeling intense anxiety about being late for work. But an NT driver might think "f**k sake, not again, I'm gonna be late for work! Again!" - even if they're not exactly feeling anxious about being late for work, they're just fed up with the frequency of accidents and hold-ups that occur on the same road.
Of course NTs might feel shocked as they drive past the accident and discover it's serious and there are people dead or severely hurt or the cars have caught fire or something.

I totally agree with this, although I'm not necessarily certain this is solely governed by whether or not one is on the Spectrum.


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Joe90
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05 Jun 2022, 2:49 pm

MaxE wrote:
I think I can safely say that the average NT basically forms their opinions based on what their friends think, whereas autistics don't. I suppose the downside is that an autistic person will choose which set of facts to consider when forming an opinion, and by doing so in a vacuum they can arrive at equally irrational conclusions (when compared to NTs).


I often base my facts on what I hear from other people, which is why I get attacked here on WP so much for stating something that may not necessarily be 100% true. I'm a bit different with opinions though, as I can be stubborn with what I want and don't want to do and I don't bow down to peer pressure - although I do beat myself up for not doing so. Like I'm a born non-drinker, I've never been drunk in my life and I never will be, I'm happy living a teetotal life and nothing will change that, and I'm surrounded by people that do drink. But at the same time I feel alone and alien because I don't ever drink, and I think that is my inner NT rearing its head and scolding me for not following the herd.


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Dear_one
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05 Jun 2022, 3:14 pm

This is a vast topic with millions of variations. In general, I think we can say that having better mirror neurons makes it easier for NTs to behave as a herd. This constant consideration of relationships leaves them with less ability to focus on research, and will short-circuit their logic frequently. Seeing fewer people unlike themselves gives them less practice at dealing with variations, despite superior social skills on average. Their conventionality makes them an easy target for marketing experts, so the main herd is kept under control by them.



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05 Jun 2022, 3:28 pm

Dear_one wrote:
This is a vast topic with millions of variations. In general, I think we can say that having better mirror neurons makes it easier for NTs to behave as a herd. This constant consideration of relationships leaves them with less ability to focus on research, and will short-circuit their logic frequently. Seeing fewer people unlike themselves gives them less practice at dealing with variations, despite superior social skills on average. Their conventionality makes them an easy target for marketing experts, so the main herd is kept under control by them.


Yeah...true that. Marketing is very much an NT construct aimed at the NT majority, playing on emotions like belonging, envy, desire for status, etc. When I was in grade 10, the other kids/teens were talking about going clothes shopping, whereas I much preferred to spend my paper route and allowance money on Nintendo games... because I figured that I'd never be accepted anyway... so, yes, I suppose you could say that I thought as NTs in that respect - I still felt the envy and the wanting to belong, but I guess that I felt so disenfranchised and beaten down by "learned helplessness" that I didn't bother with any wardrobe makeover. 8O

But that's the thing about having an ASD, isn't it - it's so multifaceted with impairments/differences in several categories (beyond the primary social communication one), so in one's formative years, we may feel too demoralized to mask or blend in where we can.



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09 Jun 2022, 7:24 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Caz72 wrote:
UltraViolet240422 wrote:
Caz72 wrote:
i dont know and i care even less

Bit rude.


they dont care about my feelings or thoughts so why should i care about them


Because life aint far. THEY are the majority, and have all of the power. So you have to learn how they think so you can survive even though they do not have to do the same for you. In other words to survive autistics have to learn how to be good house n****rs!


I want to learn how they think. NT's come across as people that think inaccurately. Especially when their way of thinking affect me (an employer, some colleagues, politicians), it can be a problem. They sometimes don't like to chance their way of thinking, if there are new facts (proof or evidence). Even when I come up with new facts, they often are too stubborn to listen to me (figurative or literally). I sometimes have a hard time to convince others.

But I surely don't hate NT's. Some NT's are true friends and are really social. I know about myself that I am very social for someone on the spectrum. I show interest in other people and their interests, and have humor.

I also look at the way of thinking and political orientation. People from the left side are slightly more violent than from the right side. Terrorist attacks on politicians in the Netherlands (Hans Janmaat and Pim Fortuyn) are done by far-left terrorists. The same is happening again: Thierry Baudet is being threatened again by far-left (who are now in the Dutch government). People from the right (=not left) side are more into reasoning, want to look at facts, tend to change their opinions when the facts or evidence change. Now I am called far-right, because people think I do believe in the cospiracy that the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization want to take over the world, creating a technocratic, dictatorial, communist world government. Some steps in that direction have already been taken.



naturalplastic
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10 Jun 2022, 1:53 am

As Dear-one said- its a vast subject.

You cant really state in one paragraph "how nts think".

You can only make vague generalizations.



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10 Jun 2022, 2:58 am

posting poitical msm dribble in the middle of the night isn't suspicious at all, schnabbel for the journo's,
or let the guilluible autists believe its just fine :mrgreen:
in am; if its for the money then its always justified
here its the same i suppose but its more hidden, even or mostly for the do-er , its not for the money but for the "better-good" (Double Plus Good)
therapist-policing is another, herding the aspies to use the "right" words and force emotion on them, fake it til you make it through the therapistic obligated speech, notice patients in the mh-system use the same narratif (mimic)
asp are more excluded as the feelings-lobby gets bolder and powerfull, too many work for government,
and the mediocracy rules on,
from fake ass to fake cu_nt?

sorry that was a rant, induced by the msm around,
the puddle is rising, rising around you
Rab C Nesbitt having a rant.



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10 Jun 2022, 8:07 am

I prefer the introverted ones because their behaviour is similar to autistic behaviour.

And they're quieter :D


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10 Jun 2022, 9:00 am

I suppose it isn't a "one size fits all" thing, but it seems that NTs are wired to know what the normal standards are regarding behaviours and trends. That's why I call NTs 'normal', because although that may annoy some, it kind of describes their expectations, which probably proves that most NTs think like that, although not all act the same of course and there are of course exceptions. Some NTs who were brought up in an environment that is different from the normal way to being up a child, so that NT will go around thinking that is the norm, until they get older and if they do experience the rest of society then they may become confused and realise that their previous lifestyle wasn't normal, which can become PTSD. That can affect a person's way of thinking. Also NTs with anxiety disorder or depression or grieving for a lost loved one, or whatever, can change the way they think too.

So there is no one size fits all, but sometimes I feel that I get offended by things most NTs don't, and vice versa. So NTs in general may have an invisible list of "forbidden words" that they know about and are expected to get offended by, while I can actually accept and understand what they're trying to say when "their forbidden words" are said to me, but when my "forbidden words" are said to me it offends me but wouldn't offend them. This is where I have to mask, because I know that "my" forbidden words aren't the same as "their" forbidden words, so if I freak out then they will obviously be unfamiliar with.... OHH I can't think of better words to describe this! Damn my tiny little brain! :scratch:


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10 Jun 2022, 9:04 am

Not all NTs think the same way

But many of them look at the current situation, and then the conclusion they want (that makes themselves look the best, without actually "lying"). Then they come up with a method of getting there. Like a map

The way I think is that I look at all the evidence and come up with the worst conclusion. The conclusion that makes everyone including myself look the worst



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10 Jun 2022, 10:59 am

NTs tend to think alike, but they don't understand the process themselves. Here's a very confident list of what they once "knew." - Sorry about the formatting - it does not stick here.
"19th century reasons for admission into insane asylums:
M F
Ill health of various kinds 22 24
Intemperance 29 0
Loss of property 17 0
Dread of Poverty 2 0
Dsappointed affections 2 4
Intense Study 5 0
Domestic Difficulties 1 5
Fright at fires, etc. 2 3
Grief - loss of friends 4 6
Intense application to business 2 9
Religious excitement 8 7
Want of employment 9 0
Use of opium 0 2
Use of tobacco 2 0
Mental anxiety 4 1
Unascertained 0 0

When I was young, plate tectonics was a new theory, but the University still offered courses on "land bridges" to explain things because the older tenured professors couldn't change their minds.
There was also a very lively debate on "Nature vs Nurture" - which human behaviours came from instinct and which from local culture. That debate was not resolved, but cancelled. The current gang is adamant that humans are unique in having no instincts at all.



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10 Jun 2022, 11:42 am

I speak to a psychologist who specializes in autism, and especially adult autism, for an hour every week. I am grateful to have her in my life. I first started seeing her for assistance with my marriage and specifically the problems my autism were causing. One thing she does for me is to help me understand how my hyper-NT wife and other NT folks think. In the end, we will be never be able to really understand how NT people think, and they never will be able to understand us.



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10 Jun 2022, 12:04 pm

There are some things that take days for my logical process to understand, because the right hypothesis is not available. NTs process a lot of social information in a fast analogue system they are barely aware of. Once you know how to ride a bike, you stop thinking about it consciously, and just go. NTs have automatic responses to "how are you" etc, but they can still play dominance games with the exact wording used, not realizing it consciously.



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10 Jun 2022, 12:11 pm

They think? Ha ha ha, that's a good one.

But seriously, when they do think it's usually nowhere near similar what they say out loud, and yet they have the unshakable belief that we're supposed to automatically know and understand because apparently we're psychics who can read their mind.

For example:
"I'll be there at 3:30" means "I'll be there whenever I feel like it and you have no right to be upset if I show up much later or earlier than 3:30 because the whole world revolves around me."

"I want the blue object" means "I really want the red object, but I sincerely believe you will tell me it's okay I can really have the red object, but if you end up giving me the blue object getting angry and in your face is a right, not a privilege."

"Let's have a chat" means "Let's focus the conversation entirely on me and only me, because only me and my own interests matter, and if you don't know that it's your own fault, and If I'm not interested in what you have to say that's your fault too, because no one is interested in what nonsense you have to say."

"How are you?" means "I don't care in the slightest how you really are mentally, emotionally, and/or physically and you absolutely must answer "fine", even if you've never felt less fine in your entire life and therefore it's the same as lying, but lying is perfectly okay and acceptable in fact if you don't lie you're either the strangest person in the whole world or you're a freak of nature."