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CrushedPentagon
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29 Nov 2007, 10:59 pm

Your husband is definately on the spectrum. You have to realize that just telling him that you want him to talk is not going to work. It would be like telling a computer to "output some data," without specifying which data you want. I guarantee you that he has no idea what he is supposed to say.

Do you and he have common interests to talk about? You say he is only interested in computers, but you mention that he knows 3 languages. Are languages another interest of his?

Finally, can you interest him in coming to WP? Maybe people here can be supportive or he can at least read some posts of other people going through what he is going through. It sounds like you two are very different and it will be a lot of work for both of you to meet half way.



Mindtear
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29 Nov 2007, 11:10 pm

It sounds like he loves your company but gets nothing out of the verbal side of things outside his own interests. If a woman wanted to get the "i love you" phase out of me it would most likely have to be from a direct question, such as " do you love me?". To me saying such things would be awkward even to someone i know very well.
Subjective questioning is very hard for austic people to answer, as things need to be objective(real) for true comprehension for an adequate answer for most people to understand.

Its most likely that its not that he doesnt want to say anything to comfort you, but he just doesnt know what to say to do it.



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29 Nov 2007, 11:20 pm

Isaura wrote:
I am scared that when we have children, he will be an unemotional father.


In my experience, Aspergers is not about being "unemotional". It's about not being able to relate to others.

I have a 1 1/2 year old son. Though I may still be somewhat odd in personality, I've never felt like I'm incapable of the things that make someone a good parent. There are few disorders, in my opinion, that make someone incapable of loving their child. Loving, including understanding and empathy. Aspies are not incapable of feeling these things. My child has been an acception to many of my symptoms. Mainly because you are with them from the day that they are born. They know nothing but their parents to begin with, so there is no longer that fear of "they're going to think I'm weird".

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that there are a lot of Aspie parents who do just a fine job. I don't think Autism screws with your capability to feel what is already there... and in a parent-child relationship... as long as you're doing everything you can to meet the child's needs, then there shouldn't be any kind of void.

Just my two cents.


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30 Nov 2007, 12:00 am

AS historically has indicated strengths in language and logic, and a weakness socially, and no clinically significant weaknesses anywhere else. HFA doesn't have any real requirement other than that the weaknesses not be profound. So it is possible that, as adults, someone that is AS and someone that is HFA may appear the same, etc... that is one of the problems with the way they wrote the DSM.

I hadn't considered that though. I am slow to switch to some less frequently used or more confusing things, and I am slow to switch languages completely. Learning other languages actually made it a little harder to speak english. Sometimes I may get a word in spanish, german, or french before determining it in English. I'm still fluent in english, but I am just not as articulate, sometimes, etc... ALSO, if I go to a foreign country, it may take a while before I speak as well as I can. Who knows, maybe your husband has a similar problem, although mine isn't as profound. At least mine isn't as profound in my native language(english). It gets progressively worse as it goes to german, danish, spanish, french, hindi.

Just today, I was asked about something, and it wasn't asked right and wasn't complete, but I SHOULD have known the answer RIGHT THEN! It must have taken a minute to "switch gears". It was almost like on the matrix where they use the interfaces to learn. Like them, I went from someone knowing only that I should know it to a veritable EXPERT on the subject. A few minutes later, I investigated and solved the problem.



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30 Nov 2007, 12:38 am

Isaura wrote:
Greentea, thank you for replying.
He is not getting worse, he's been the same all his live, it is getting harder and harder for me personally when time goes by.

If he is not an aspie, what is he? Everything I read about the syndrome fits him perfectly--he tries to be sociable, but he is so different from everyone else people dont get it. And I have to explain all my feelings to him i detail for him to understand it. He cant read emotions at all. for example, when I am happy, he can ask--Why are you so pissed? And I have to explain for 30 minutes that I am not pissed.


While it may not be Asperger's, it definitely sounds like it could be some form of Autism. My husband is a lot like that, though mine attempts to be social more than yours. I think you need to read this:

http://www.kmarshack.com/therapy/asperger/faq.html

And feel free to PM me if you'd like.


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siuan
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30 Nov 2007, 12:43 am

KingdomOfRats wrote:
greentea,
it doesn't say he is getting worse,it's about own tolerance level getting worse over time.
it is actually possible for aspies and auties to 'get worse' when older,especially because there are a lot more responsibilities and things to cope with as adult,and lots of other things can make traits stronger to.
there is an article about this somewhere on the autistics.org site.


Isaura,it certainly sounds like he's on the spectrum,would going to a local autism support group help [for families/husbands/wives etc]?


Here's my theory. I think that, in marriage, an aspie may get more comfortable and be more himself. Where he may have strained more to be more social, when relaxed and there is no longer "need", it may seem the behaviors are worsening.


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siuan
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30 Nov 2007, 12:52 am

Isaura wrote:
Thank you, Kingdom, i am looking for the support group.

But i dont even know if it makes sence for us to stay together, I am concerned that when we have kids it may get much harder. Does any one have any experience in the relationship with a NT person? Can it even work? is it possible?


I'm married to a man who is either aspie or HFA. He is an engineer (stereotype, lol) and is really good at what he does. He memorizes numbers of the controls he works with and can spout facts off the top of his head to the point I'm in awe of it. As for facial expressions, they don't match what he is feeling, and mostly he looks pissed. Usually he isn't. Arguing is awful because communication is is shortcoming. Some things just do. not. get. through. We've been known to argue the very same point for hours or days or even MONTHS (not constantly, of course) and not even know it!

I do have to say he is an exceptional father, for the most part. He hugs them, reads to them, today he picked our daughter up from school (I was at an appt) and took her to lunch :) He got up with them in the night for bottles and diapers when I was exhausted, he let them fall asleep on his chest, he wants so much for them to he happy children and they are. I can't fault him for much as a parent. He's better than any dad I've ever met.

With me, he can seem distant, unaffectionate, unemotional. Sometimes I feel lonely, like I'm not sure if I even know him, if that makes any sense. But like you say, I know he loves me and he can be surprisingly selfless and kind. He's honest and loyal. I understand him, for the most part. It takes work sometimes, but I believe he's worth it. I tend to look for emotional support in my friends though, rather than him, because unless he has actually experienced something the same way I have...he kind of doesn't get it.

Anyhow, like I said, sounds like he is definitely on the spectrum. Our children are both autistic, by the way, but VERY smart.


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siuan
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30 Nov 2007, 1:00 am

Isaura wrote:
I am reading about HFA, and I have some questions--he is not clumsy, extremely the opposite-he does yoga, professional swimmer and diver, he skis. and he is successful at work--as I said he is a doctor. Even though he is saying that it is very hard for him to talk to patients, he says it exausts him. When i come home and want to talk, he does not get it. he asks didn't you talk at work enough? arent you tired from talking?


LOL OMG! I've heard such similar lines as, "I get all the socializing I need at work," and "I have to talk at work. At home I don't have to, and I don't really have anything to say."

I can relate. I find social situations exhausting and I need to be alone afterward to "recover". But I enjoy talking to him.


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30 Nov 2007, 1:41 am

I love my husband how he is so much. He actually isn't talking with his parents now. The reason, he always felt he had to lie to his mother about going to graduate school, but it was too much pressure for him. He would have to pay for it all himself and everything.
He actually did take a math class in grad school this semester, but he had to drop it. He didn't realize all the work he would have to put into his math and that his professors won't spoon feed him the material anymore like they did in undergraduate school.

His mom is one of those over-emotional types who also has difficulty with empathy, but she believes in the old world culture even though she lives in and was born in the United States. His dad is more laid back and reasonable, but we still had pressure from him about graduate school.

He said that one of the reasons he is so in love with me is because he feels he can be himself with me. Its hard when family, society etc doesn't understand you, but we mean the world to each other.

I think there is a certain attraction or mystique about the autistic types. We seem so absorbed in our own little worlds, so getting to know one is like entering a whole new world. There is always this sense of mystery, this sense of discovery that never goes away, because just when you think you understand it surprises you, showing you things you have always had inside, but realizing that those aspects of the self can become complete within themselves. I suppose one could find it frightening, but I also believe that the unknown is a sort of safe haven from things that are known but oppressive on our freedom to be ourselves.


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30 Nov 2007, 4:46 am

A suggestion: have you tried getting a computer each and talking via an instant messaging program? It may sound silly, but as you say, (if I've read your posts correctly), your husband seems to be ok with forms of communication other than spoken. The brother of one of my friends is an IT worker, as is his girlfriend and apparently they will sit and talk via thwir computers even when they are in the same room.


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Plutonian_Persona
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30 Nov 2007, 10:43 am

siuan wrote:
Here's my theory. I think that, in marriage, an aspie may get more comfortable and be more himself. Where he may have strained more to be more social, when relaxed and there is no longer "need", it may seem the behaviors are worsening.


I think that your theory has a great deal of validity because this is the way that my relationship with my fiancee has been going. When we first met (online, of course) I tried to be as social as possible, even though it took a lot out of me.

Now that we have been together for over a year and shared an apartment for 4 months, the "real" me has showed up and it's not what she expected at all, especially my need to be alone most of the time due to my total dislike of being around people, my wholly negative attitudes, my obsessions, and my highly flexible libido. I'm trying my best to be adaptable, which is difficult since I have very fixed attitudes, but at least I'm willing to compromise partially.

FOR ISAURA:
I think that one of the greatest obstacles to a successful Aspie (Autie)/NT relationship is the communication divide (well, more like canyon). Who Am I may be on to something when suggesting Instant Messaging; give it a try, anything is better than nothing!


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Isaura
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30 Nov 2007, 10:51 am

Siuan, your husbands so much like mine! Our arguing does not go anywhere either! He just does not get it, it is like arguing with an alien--I have to explain the simple things to him for hours, and he still does not get them. It is emotionally exhausting.
I don’t have the sence of mystery about him--I am always scared that he is empty inside, I don’t know if he has any feelings at all.
Wo Am I--I use a computer at work, 10 hours a day for 10 years, I cant stand it, I am so sick of it, I don’t want to use it during my free time to talk to him, I need a break and my eyes need to rest. It would help a lot if we could IM, but he is the oppsosite--no computer at work, so when he gets home he gets absorbed by it
We do have common interests, and we do very well with sports--when we play a game, ski, he still does not talk, but at least we are having fun. I am trying to keep us active--going hiking, skiing, ice skating, yoga, bowling, any kind of activity helps, but he still does not talk, I have to reach out to others for talking.



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30 Nov 2007, 11:16 am

Looking over this, it seems like you really have two distinct problems:

The first is his unwillingness to seek a diagnosis. I would hope that some reading will help that - I'm not formally diagnosed, and borderline Asperger's/PDD-NOS (so really on the mild end of the spectrum, although it still causes me problems), but speaking for myself only I know that studying Asperger's has been really helpful for me. It's allowed me to understand why I think in the ways I think, understand why certain things are hard for me, and why other things are easier. It's advantageous for us to know why we act the way we do and how that differs to others, because it helps somewhat smooth over the difficulties in interaction. It also makes available the wealth of information there is on coping strategies, and there is a lot out there.
Do you know what your husband's objection is to seeking a diagnosis or investigating? There is still definitely stigma attached to having an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but in many arenas (less so in the US, sadly) it's being seen less as a disease and more as a difference - that's important, because he ought to understand that this isn't about being disabled, defective, whatever. It's about understanding the uncommon way he thinks and what he can get from that - both positive and negative. If he can understand this isn't about singling him out or identifying a problem, he may be more open to investigating. Tony Attwood and Simon Baron-Cohen's work should probably help in this - both reject the idea that autism is a disease to be treated, and instead think of it as a difference to be investigated and even celebrated.

Your second problem is his unwillingness to see that there's a problem in your marriage. This could be the kicker. It's possible that, if you can get past the first, it'll make things a lot easier in the second. It's possible that it might even make things worse ("see, there is a reason I don't want to talk, you'll have to just deal"). I can't tell you which may happen. If he's unwilling to accept that things, as they stand, are not tolerable for you long term I'm not sure what to advise. I would try explaining to him, again, that you're not having your needs met. Attwood gives a great illustration of how things that NTs (neurologically typical) think may have been plainly spoken to an autist have not been. I've done this with my NT wife before:

Quote:
Wife: Do we have any ketchup?
Me: Yes.
Wife: !.......... Then could I have some please?

To the vast majority of NTs, the implication that asking if we have some ketchup the person asking therefore wants some is clear. To an autist, the question is taken at face value - they just want to know if we have ketchup, no desire for it is implied. This is something people have a hard time understanding - you really do have to say exactly what you mean. So it may be worth trying to tell him again, or even writing down your concerns in a letter so he's not distracted when he reads it. But again, even in writing, be careful to say exactly what you mean, and make it clear, in literal, unambiguous terms.
In the end, though, there's no way around the fact that if you think there's a problem and he refuses to acknowledge it or address it, there's a wider issue. If he's been told plainly, and goes into denial, I'm not sure what more you can do. I believe that everyone in a marriage has an obligation to try and make things work, and if he won't try then you can't fix it alone. It takes an effort from both sides. If he will try, well, I suspect you've had most of the useful information you'll get from this thread already. The next step really is a lot of reading, trying to find strategies to keep you sane, getting an adequate amount of communication through alternative methods (and adequate will be all you'll get - don't expect a verbose people person at the end of this, you won't get one), and understanding why he is how he is. Come back if you have any questions, for sure.


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Isaura
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30 Nov 2007, 11:39 am

Dear Platonian, i have the need in real human interaction, i need to hear compliments, warm words, IMing will not do it for me--it will not make me feel any less lonely.



mmaestro
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30 Nov 2007, 11:39 am

I wrote:
If he will try, well, I suspect you've had most of the useful information you'll get from this thread already.
...
Come back if you have any questions, for sure.

I just realised this comes across way harsher than I'd intended. I didn't mean to imply you should go, nor stop posting 'til you've read some more - I know the catharsis of just talking about this stuff can be helpful. I simply meant to get across that I think in terms of concrete actions you can take, you've probably gotten all the ones you'll get for a little while, and we'll start all repeating ourselves. But if there's more you want to say, or discuss, please don't let what I said make you think that I think you should go for a while. That's not what I meant at all.


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Isaura
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30 Nov 2007, 11:55 am

mmaestro, I try talking to him about it, ask him to at least read--but he gets very upset and freaks out. He knows he has a problem, but he thinks that there is nothing that can be done and that I should just accept him the way he is, because all other people do. He does not understand that other people dont have to live with him 24/7, they have their own significant others. And then he gets defensive and tells me that I am crazy myself, that I am depressed and bipolar and have manic depression, so thats the real problem. I do cry a lot from lack of communication, but it only started after i moved in with him. I could not understand what was going on at first because i've never had such a problem, i could not figure out why i felt so empty with him.
He knows that we have a problem in our marriage--but in his view it is all my fault--he is happy with me, and I am not happy with him.
His lack of attention is really frustrating. For exapmle, he gave me a pair of boots for my bday that was identical to the boots I already had. Now I have two pairs of exactly the same boots. How could he not remember that I already have the same pair? i wear it all the time in front of him. And he cant understand why i would be upset about it.

As for communicating with him and your ketchup example, in our case it is more complicated.
When I ask him how his family is doing, he gets a blank expression and then says--differently. He never gives a definate answer, it is always--I don’t know, or so-so, or differently.
Also, when he tries to be funny it is pretty offensive and he does not get it. Like he can tell that my dress looks like a pillowcase, or that it is good that he can still hug me (meaning I am not that fat yet), all his jokes are pretty hurtful.