Those ignorant of their AS--and doing fine

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Another bit of information I want to throw out there:

It is very, very possible to construct a society where a non-autistic person wandering into it would be disabled by it.

That doesn't mean that being non-autistic is "a disorder".

And when I say very, very possible. I mean that I have been to conventions that are for autistic people. While they were not perfect for every autistic person, but most of the people there were autistic, and there were specific social rules set up entirely for the convenience of the specific autistic people who attended rather than the usual which is the convenience of non-autistic people.

Some non-autistic people adapt to it.

I have seen others though.

And I've seen them come close to some kind of nervous breakdown just by being immersed in that environment that was entirely inaccessible to them, they could not easily adapt to it, they were disoriented, they were unhappy, they felt left out, they felt inferior, they felt like the only ones who were socially awkward and unable to figure out the social stuff, and so on and so forth. It was as if they were going through something much like culture shock, and something much like autistic people have to live with every day (except autistic people, having lived this way our entire lives, are better adapted to it).

Which is why I don't buy that it's autistic people's unique social deficits that lead to us not adapting well. They don't seem that unique at all, and the differences between autistic people and non-autistic people really don't seem social, either. Non-autistic people can get plenty socially awkward, inappropriate, and rude, when the people setting the social climate are autistic.

My grandsons have been diagnosed early and received cognitive therapy and tools to deal with socialisation, meltdowns etc

Impaired? They would not think so. They are too busy learning and living life to the full - and talking non stop.

My hope is that they are the generation that view aspergers as "a different way of being".

*edit: Cut angry incomprehensible insensible rant*

Let's explore exactly what the DSM-IV's diagnostic criteria imply.

That is, let's suppose there is a disorder, let's call it Z-Syndrome, that leaves an individual completely typical in all walks of life, except for one thing: those with Z-Syndrome are completely unable to build boats. Z-Syndrome is passed to successive generations genetically, and manifests itself as a specific neurological structure in one's brain. Also, suppose that the DSM-IV requires that for a person to be diagnosed with Z-Syndrome, it must cause significant impairment in their day to day life. Let's suppose that roughly 1 in 200 people have Z-Syndrome. The vast majority of them will not feel that they are impaired, because they have no desire to build boats, but for those whose dream it is to be a boat craftsman, Z-Syndrome will cause significant impairment. The question is: even though the hypothetical DSM-IV diagnostic criteria would not diagnose most people who have Z-Syndrome, do those people who have the neurological manifestation of Z-Syndrome, but no desire to build boats, still HAVE the syndrome? I suggest that they do.

When the DSM-IV requires that a significant impairment be present for a diagnosis, it relies on the subjective assessment of the individual (or therapist if the patient's impairment is obvious) as to whether or not he is impaired. But what does impairment mean, and by what means should one decide whether or not their traits amount to a significant impairment? In one sense, an impairment exists only if the disorder leaves the patient unable to do things he wants to do. The existence of the specific neurological conditions required for Asperger's is independent of whether or not an individual wants to take part in the areas in which he is supposedly impaired.

The above thought experiment is certainly different from Asperger's in several ways. For example, even if a person with Asperger's has no desire to participate in large social occasions, and thus does not feel impaired, the traits of Asperger's will not go unnoticed. On the contrary, most anyone who talks one on one with the person will notice their "oddities". However, the point was to illustrate that the objective existence of a neurological condition need not be coexistent with a subjective self-assessment of impairment on the behalf of the individual.

I do not feel impaired. I'm turning my obsession with mathematics into a career, I feel that I'm doing much better than just coping, and I'm a generally happy person. So in response to Juggernaut, I think that the existence of AS need not always be associated with sadness, depression, or "just coping", although, since AS is a spectrum disorder, coping may be the only option for some.

EDIT/NOTE: Others, including my girlfriend, do see me as being impaired, in particular with regards to social situations and also stimming. The fact that I do not feel that I have any impairment may be due simply to my hardcore narcissism

Jason - precisely. Nicely argued.

EDIT: just saw your edit...I think that narcissism, as you call it, does play a part I think we are blind to the subtle manifestations unless we know the name for this brain type and accept it for ourseves. I was both nearly blind and narcissistically confident of myself until I got the official assessment in mid-40s. I was successful in NT terms until I started questioning and realising how much superhuman effort I'd always put into succeeding the NT way. I knew anyway that I was way brighter than most NT folks intellectually and that helped me through. Now that I know that NTs consider that high IQ is part of a 'disorder'...well, they have devalued and discounted it, they've somehow made it aberrant, not to be trusted.

Does that make sense?

I have known I was DX'ed with HFA when I was little, my parents told me when I was 12 and I never once spoke of it nor even really thought of it until recently because I was trying to do normal things in life and just never knew much about autism to begin with until I decided I was frusterated with dating and the fact that years of collage was still getting me into jobs where I was the only collage grad, I realized perhapse this 'autism' that my parents also knew little about cause this was back in the 80's, but this may be the problem, I did some internet searching and determined its likly many on the spectrum, tho highly intelligent may very well end up in a position in life where someone with less intelect generally ends up and that my problem with connecting and socializing really effectivly was a symptom of autism.

Coming to WP I have learned more in the half year I have been here then in the whole rest of my life and it really has helped me out alot.

I see how well I am able to function when I finally get out of my past, the old associations I have, and into new situations, and realize I could have been like that a long time if I had just gotten there a long time ago. And so I think, what if I simply always been in that healthy situation--where yes perhaps I had AS but my environment was positive enough for me (ie, family, opportunities, etc) I would have just grown up as a unique but well adjusted person.

Yes I would still be autistic. As I will be as I continue to develop and get away from my past and family (in process now). But as a well adjusted person, I'd have no need to talk to other aspies about it--there are plenty of NT's that I relate to extremely well. In fact, I believe there are more NT's I could relate to than Aspies, since I do not relate well in person to people with terrible social skills or odd thinking (I'm capable of being very good with people--in fact I usually underesitimate myself and am surprised when I find out how much people like me)

I think that for me, aspergers was never the key issue--it was depression.

I became severely depressed as a young kid, and this made me weak and vulnerable, so the autistic traits became worse and had a bigger effect. So if I had gotten treatment for that, I don't think the other things would have been an issue--but because I was not treated, they were able to grow and fester until they became me.

I dated a girl I believe to be an aspie--yet she never struggled with depression--and she is very well adjusted, with deep friendships--even though she doesn't connect with most people, she's been stable enough to connect with others all the same. I see her as very similar to how I could have been had I not had depression, or if I had had a family that gave me the support I needed.

So my point is that I think there are a lot more people that are aspies than we might think--and that perhaps if their autism was combined with a different environment or other issues like depression, it would be apparent. That autism perhaps is very capable of being very subtle--to the point that things can "cause" a person to be autistic--but it is just a trigger, a trigger for something that was latent and definitely there, but subtle enough that even a person looking for symptoms would have to conclude that the person does not have it--but were things to have gone a bit differently in environment of brain, there would be a definite diagnosis.


I also think that for those trapped by the little things, once in a good environment, there is hope of functioning as an NT, of not needing WP. That is where I believe I am heading. It should have and could have happened a long time ago, but at least it is beginning now and I know what direction to head in.

I've been pondering on a similar train of thought recently.

My current belief is that it's entirely possible to have Asperger's Syndrome (ie. the underlying wiring differences), but not necessarily be affected enough to warrant a diagnosis of Asperger's Disorder.

ie., the Syndrome is like a type of personality - you can have it, not, whatever. It's not "important" in any real sense. But, you can have problems in your life because of it (due to severity of the syndrome, or due to your environment) and then the ability/need for a diagnosis kicks in.

Autism is something you're born with, not something that can come and go. If your ability to function changes due to your environment, you're not gaining/losing autism. Your life is just being more/less disorderly.

The issue of how others perceive you is a big deal too - I had no idea how I've been perceived until recently. Now that I've been getting feedback on a lot of stuff (mostly from my wife), it's making me downright paranoid some days. I think I'm being the most amazingly friendly person, but others have seen me as rude, condescending, snobbish, boring, etc.

I first read about AS about 6 months ago and realized I was just like the people in the news article. I read about AS with a passion, wanting to know more about it and possible implications.

I'm 48, at least until the end of the month. I grew up not knowing what was different about me, just knowing something was. I actually believed myself to either be a genetic throwback to our neandertal ancestors or the next step in mankind's evolution. I had problems and issues that were clearly (in retrospect) caused by my AS.

Had I and my parents known what AS was, how to teach me at a young age the life skills that we usually lack, I would have had a less stressful life, I think. I may be on the milder end of the spectrum, and am a father of an AS son with a full time job, house, dogs, etc. but even Superman was better off knowing about Kryptonites effect on him.

I have my own belief about AS being a disability, and that is that while I am disabled when it comes to understanding people (NTs) and their thought processes, I am OVERABLED when it comes to logic, visuallization, problem solving, fixing things, improving things, math, computers, anything mechanical (prodigious list of superpowers continues)...

Knowing my parameters makes my life and emotions more understandable, and thus easier to deal with. For example, before my Dx, I had a really bad temper once in a while.

I would get upset about something or someone, and ramp right up to what I considered an uncontrollable rage. I would yell (I'm told it was more of a scream), rant, rage, and smash my fist into some very hard material, breaking my hand more than once. Then I would calm down quickly and mellow out.

Appearently, this is a decription of a meltdown. Know that I know about AS, I find it easier to hold my temper, because I understand why I get that way, and how to walk away for something upsetting me.

Mark