Psychologist says he doesn't think I have Asperger's

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I am probably the 50th person to mention that Tony Attwood lives and practices in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.

Merle

I think it is important that everyone on the spectrum gets a diagnosis. That way each individual can get some form of social justice or at least begins the battle for acknowlegement.

As far as your diagnosis goes, mw99, you have every right to be upset. Another psychologist who still gets paid even though he is not up to the job! Can you find a friendly psychologist through a local aspergers group.

My daughter had trouble finding someone to diagnose her sons. She found a second pediatrician because the first one was obstructive. These experts do not realise the harm they do to people such as yourself and the angst they create.

Don't give up. Get your diagnosis. Good luck

srriv345,

Well, "aspies" are interested in one and only one topic [at the time]. You can have multiple obsessions/interests, but you'll only focus on one at the time for a specific period--weeks to years.

Eye contact: is but one facet of social interaction. I've yet to see someone with AS make eye contact "normally". Those who do make eye contact when they speak are usually looking through people, focusing on other parts of the face (this and the former can be picked up via observation), and/or showing an impairment in such (i.e., looking away many times throughout the conversation). Not to mention that when someone is forcing themselves to make eye contact other areas of interaction will still be impaired, this can be easily picked up too (one cannot force themselves to interact "normally" over all facets).

Females get Asperger's, it's just a ratio of 5 to 1. Most individuals with AS won't get married.

In the end, when you see your second, third and fourth professional and they say the same thing, that's kinda telling (whether you have it or not).

You're taking a very narrow view of this. I know plenty of aspies who are interested in more than one thing at the same time. (Obviously, not the exact same time, but the same general time period.) There are many people on this board who fit this, I believe.

As for eye contact, I repeat that it can be learned (yes, even by aspies) and even some trained professionals can't tell real eye contact from fake eye contact sometimes. My therapist often tells me "good eye contact" when I'm just looking in the general direction of her face. It's not real eye contact, but even a trained professional like her doesn't always notice. The psychologist who diagnosed me with AS and specializes in AS can generally tell the difference between real and fake eye contact, I think. Experience in looking for these things is everything, and most non-specialists don't have that experience. Even so, I don't believe in single-criteria diagnosis (though some "professionals" will use it.) Yes, aspies will display a certain pattern of social behaviors. But in milder and well-adapted cases, that can be more subtle and many professionals don't recognize this. Sometimes an aspie might even try to overcompensate by using too much eye contact, for instance. It's not just avoidance of eye contact.

IMHO some of your generalizations are incorrect. Many professionals (including Dr. Atwood) think that the male/female ratio is closer than believed because of stereotypes and professionals' lack of experience in diagnosing females. Given that so many people are undiagnosed, I think it's hard to know what the true gender ratio is, or what proportion are married. Do you have a statistic on the "most people with Asperger's never marry" statement? Given the number of married people on boards like that, I'm not sure it's accurate (granted, I know that isn't very scientific. But there isn't much current data on this which takes into account the entire spectrum population. Professional bias even plays a role here. If professionals think "girls never/almost never get Asperger's" or "people with Asperger's never/almost never marry", then not many females or married people are going to get diagnosed even if they qualify.)

I entirely agree with Sophist's post about how ignorant some (not all) professionals are. Sure, if two/three/four professionals with extensive experience in ASDs say that Person X isn't AS, then that's almost certainly true. But I honestly wouldn't put much stock in the opinions of professionals who spent ten minutes on ASDs in med school and then met two AS people over the course of their entire careers.

Firstly: don't put any responsibility for the situation on yourself. You seem to have thought about wether or not you have AS, and approached a professional seeking to find out if it is really the case. I think the best response they could have made is "That doesn't mean you necessarily have it, but I'll see if we can get you assessed anyway, OK?". Saying outright that you don't have it without looking deeper is unwise, in my opinion, as that is based purely on first impression, which is usually false.

They may ultimately be right, and you may not actually have AS. But with the traits you seem to exhibit, a formal assessment is the only way to be sure.

I'm one of those people and I can tell you exactly why. When I was little, I never made eye contact. I never received any lack of criticism in the last 35 years of life, so I always got to learn all the negative things people perceive about me, and that was one I thought I could fix. So, I learned the tricks -- look at the bridge of the nose, etc. Then, I just went right for the eyes. No problem because, really, I don't feel threatened by them, it just wasn't something I thought to look at when I was little because... well, what can eyes do but look at you, right? Well, I have a problem now with women thinking that I'm hitting on them because I look them in the eyes for too long. I have since learned there is timing so, when I have enough concentration available to think about it, I count off -- one -- two -- look away, or sometimes just, "Whoa, I'm looking too long, look down for a bit, then look up." The problem is, just looking someone in the eyes is not enough -- there is some sort of dance going on there as well.

Since people do not see that dance with me, they assume I'm stupid too. It's a no-win situation. Hell, I can't even write an e-mail without offending for some reason. I've even done it on these boards!

Yes, I think you are right. There is a 'dance' or a gleam or a certain stare. We NT's read many things in the eyes, and resond with a message. So many signals are sent through the eyes and we don't even realise it.

Sorry to go off topic

srriv345,

Well yeah, I'm interested in...looking up stuff concerning autism, but that takes up hardly any of my thoughts compared to my "single" interest (sorry for the anecdote). This is what Asperger's is.

If you interact like a normal person, do what normal people do, doesn't that mean you're normal?

I know of Professor Attwood's theory (females are less aggressive), but this doesn't mean they'll exhibit the symptoms any differently--they just won't be picked up in school as much.

Marriage: "...they may even marry.", "...most have few or no friends..." and "...they don't marry." These are concerning AS/AS/HFA, in that order (eMedicine and a [rare] study on the outcome of AS/HFA).

I'm not saying that any aspie will ever interact in a completely NT way. But I do think that differences in interaction may sometimes be more subtle and less obvious to someone who hasn't worked with a wide range of aspies. Personally, I think that if someone prefers an autistic style of interaction (even if they can intellectually figure out things NTs get naturally), has intense interests, stimming, etc., they're autistic even if they've gotten good at putting up an NT facade. YMMV. I've also known aspies (including myself and my boyfriend) who have had more than one intense interest simultaneously, though usually one is stronger than the other at a particular point in time.

It's always been a nightmare of mine that I'll finally get insurance (huge relief), make an appointment with a shrink (huge relief), and he'll straight up tell me after 30 minutes that I don't have it.

Sometimes I seriously, seriously question the competence of these people. I know they're supposed to have not only studied so much more than us, but have seen far more first hand accounts. Therefore supposedly they know us better than ourselves. I guess. But the stories I hear all seem to be the same. "I have [list every single symptom of AS] and I think I might have Aspergers". And the psychiatrist is just like "No." I have a sinking feeling that's how my would-be dx will go down. Or I'll get the "bi-polar" run around again and stuffed full of meds (never happening again).

Anyway, I admire the fact that you're not gonna let this get you down. You don't need that kind of validation from other people for real, and I wish I could hear that myself a little more clearly.

I'm going to come right and say this -- it's probably been said before. I'm afraid of getting a negative diagnosis because I'd have no explanation for what I've gone through and would be forced to come to the conclusion I once came to before I could determine I had AS -- that I was just broken and there was no hope for me to ever understand why the world seems to hate everything I do and tell me, on a daily basis, "Listen," folding its hands on its lap with all seriousness, "We just don't want you here. Don't you get it? Your enthusiasm for things hurts us. Your abilities hurt us. You won't stop hurting us. Please go away." Does this resonate with anyone?

off topic:
I have watched the old films of romance where they gaze into eyes and then they are bonded forever. What a set up for a sexual young Aspie woman? I immediately thought that when they looked at you like that, it was 'ok' because we were bonded for life.

THAT took about 40 years to figure out!

Merle

KristaMeth and K96822, my only experience of diagnosis was when I was experiencing severe depression or chronic fatigue. I guess that's a shadow of what you feel when so much depends on diagnosis.

There are aspergers groups and there are practicioners who have experience with aspergers. Such practicioners may be used to listening carefully and treat you with the respect you deserve. I am sure that you can aspergers friendly psychologists from such groups.

That is how my daughter found a suitable pediatritian for her sons.

I wonder how much experience this person has with AS & autism? Some psychologists are probably still reluctant to diagnose something they see as a big, serious deal, and would rather explore other possibilities first.

To use an analogy: I look down at my feet and I see my webbed toes, that's strange I think, ducks have webbed toes, and they also paddle with them--so do I. Hang on. Ducks quack; I then make a quaking noise, O my god.... It even looks like I waddle when you tilt your head and close one eye.

I'm not a duck.

Just because you think you look, walk, quack and swim like a duck, this doesn't mean you are one.

[quote="Danielismyname"]srriv345,
Well, "aspies" are interested in one and only one topic [at the time]. You can have multiple obsessions/interests, but you'll only focus on one at the time for a specific period--weeks to years.
Eye contact: is but one facet of social interaction. I've yet to see someone with AS make eye contact "normally". Those who do make eye contact when they speak are usually looking through people, focusing on other parts of the face (this and the former can be picked up via observation), and/or showing an impairment in such (i.e., looking away many times throughout the conversation). Not to mention that when someone is forcing themselves to make eye contact other areas of interaction will still be impaired, this can be easily picked up too (one cannot force themselves to interact "normally" over all facets).


Not entirely accurate as aspies can have more than one topic interest at a time. Your right on the eye contact though, it is only one fauset that can be impaired. Some aspies can use eye contact normally but have other difficulties, yet eye-to-eye gaze is a very common problem.