Thimerosal and Autism - A Scientific Perspective

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It's your beliefs that are dangerous.





We're not talking about the "mercury militia," we're talking about zendell, one of our members.

HUH???????

I'm sorry, Mark, but not only do I not agree with that, I find that accusation very offensive. But I won't demand that you withdraw it - instead I'll ask exactly why you have come to that inaccurate conclusion.





We're not talking about the "mercury militia," we're talking about zendell, one of our members.[/quote]

Well I wasn't when I made that remark. Le Kiwi made the comment as though no one thought along those lines, and I was simply making the point that it wasn't true.

You believe that Zendell is dangerous.

Apparently I'm dangerous too, and a threat to public health, and everyone should be getting furious about me. He's now taken to flaming me in other threads non-related to potential causes of autism or vaccinations.

At least I'm not alone.

Zendell, that differentiation already existed in the 1970s. "Regression" in that sense (which does not have to be accompanied by being "normal" beforehand, and in many cases is not) was seen as part of childhood schizophrenia, as opposed to Kanner's syndrome autism. At least according to Frances Tustin. The difference was seen, but people were just thrown into different speculative categories back then, hence less people being diagnosed with autism at the time.

Well? He is. His beliefs are close enough to that of those fools who seek to "cure" us. Just how does that belief make me dangerous?

It is dangerous because you wanted his opinion to be censured and for him to be muted. I do not believe that it is dangerous to express any idea or opinion, how can information be dangerous? Even if it is untrue it will merely provide insight into another subject and information about a different thing. So really i don't think you or your ideas are dangerous as long as you do not take steps to get someone banned or censured.

Thanks to whoever linked that article, it was interesting.

If you'll PM me with links to those pages, I'll take appropriate action.

For one thing, the evidence definitely points away from vaccinations causing autism. However, with my interest in immunology and oxidation, I do feel there is the possibility that either the vaccine itself or the heavy metal preservatives and amplifiers used in such vaccines may have an effect. I don't discount this and find the whole thing fascinating.

However, as is suggested by postmortem dissection, the neuroanatomy of autism suggests its roots within the first few weeks of prenatal life, making the window very small. At the same time, the highly genetic quality to most ASCs is undeniable.

What is happening imho? Well, if I were to propose some sort of hypothesis, given neuroanatomical and scanning research, given immunological and oxidative research, given the parental reports, given the genetics research on important haplotypes related to autism located on the MHC, I would say one of a few things might be happening:

1) there is a portion to autism which is highly genetic and will occur regardless of most abnormal environmental affects, that which, especially, sets the template for the basic brain anatomy

2) autistics, as a group, might be more susceptible and therefore more vulnerable to certain environmental effects (various antigens, particular toxins, diet, autoimmunity, etc.), thus exacerbating their condition, making it more severe than it would have been without these effects. This may include vaccinations, but can also include a host of other environmental agents. Whatever the case, even if vaccinations might have a negative effect on some individuals, it is clear that it is not relegated to thimerosal or Rubella alone, but rather there are a host of potential environmental agents which could reap similar effects, toxins and infections just a few who fit that bill. My reasoning here being that it's not likely, despite the increased diagnosis rates, that occurrence rates have risen considerably. Therefore, we may have a broad susceptibility to environmental agents which are commonly found in our environments and therefore nearly impossible to avoid.

I believe, however, that many autistics, because of the implications of this, get very provoked and exhibit defensiveness when vaccinations are even mentioned because of all this mess with parents and Autism Speaks, CAN, etc. It's a human rights fight getting intermixed with the science.

Do I think the parents are crazy for their anecdotal reports? No. Do I think the level of their desperation has introduced a bias into their judgment? Yes.

And the same could be said of auties who just DON'T WANT there to be ANYTHING to do with vaccinations. Honestly, I don't think we'd have as much of a problem with it if it were for the pro-cure groups who have taken the idea as their flying banner.

But we need to separate the people from the science. Before I began reading about the science of immunology and oxidative stress in autism, "vaccine" was a buzz word for me too and sent me into an immediate rage.

False information that harms understanding of a condition and causes that understanding to be delayed if not stopped completely should be censored. There are too many people weakened by attacks by the NT world on us, and they fall prey to this and end up wanting a cure. This fires me up something chronic because it's vilification and I for one won't stand for it. It's why I argue with such people - to put over the fact that their view is causing severe distress (and it could be argued that such a line - and I'm speaking generally and not specifically of this forum - could cause suicide) and also anger. That is certainly true for me. Now maybe I'm running a bit close to the proverbial line with LeKiwi on the other thread (it's just one thread, not several as far as I remember), but whenever I see someone dissing vaccines like that, my back goes up and I see red. Scarlett in fact - because I understand the importance of vaccines and what they do, and what they prevent. I never want to see a child - any child - placed in any sort of danger, and yet by not vaccinating that is exactly what a parent is doing. Any threat from vaccines is less than it is not vaccinating, and that risk eminates not from the vaccines themselves but how they are used by doctors. A bad workman always blames his tools - vaccines are tools. Use them correctly, and there's no problem.

I don't like it when people take on the attitude of "censor nothing". That's why we now have a War on Terrorism, and I'm certain the lack of censorship is what has caused trouble of a similar nature way back in our history. We need it in general, because there are people who simply do not deserve a voice. John Best Junior is a great example of this.

Now - as stated - if the mods here choose not to act against Zendell or LeKiwi, there is nothing I can do about it. I might not agree with that decision, but I have to take it - agree to disagree, and try to cope as best I can. Of course it would help if both of them would respect the anger and angst they are causing - not just to me but to others who have argued with them as well (Beau and Lau for example).

You do not have a monopoly on truth. The only people who are going to be censored here are those that think that some should be censored.

If you do not stop with your protests about the content of other member's posts, you will censored completely.

I deny that I am purposely causing conflict. The conflict is being started (in my opinion) by Zendell in this case. Whether or not Zendell is doing it on purpose I couldn't say, but I stand by the point you quoted above - as a general guide for censorship.

I have been noticing that some of my posts anger some people here which is why I've been trying to avoid posting about certain sensitive topics. A bunch of stuff I wrote really wasn't worth posting. When only one viewpoint is presented, I will often mention the other side even if I don't agree with it. Thimerosal may be disproven as a cause of autism after autism rates stay the same over the next few years so it probably wasn't worth mentioning the evidence that supports a connection. I've been a little obsessed with corporate and government corruption (or conspiracy theories) lately and thimerosal was a part of it.

I covered this in detail on another thread, Zendell, but in brief - by doing what you are doing, you are causing confusion. Confusion is an Aspie's worst enemy, and that's why you are angering people. You might think you're trying to help (that's an Aspie trait as well) but in reality you aren't.

Sometimes the other side of the argument needs to stay out of it.

This is the last warning you will receive. You will not discuss other members and you will not suggest that anyone "needs to stay out of it."